Liz: 0:12

Welcome to R1 Bless Mess. This is Ben and Liz, and we are here with our story of raising six kids that we had in eight years, managing our entrepreneurial home with two businesses, homeschooling and currently navigating life with four almost five teenagers, plus seven chickens, two dogs and now we have two goats two goats, two little goats. What do you think about that, ben?

Ben: 0:35

Well, it's like having two extra kids, because maybe goats are kids, so it's fun, it's a challenge, but we're learning to adapt and trying to figure out how to get them out all of the trees that we don't want to be eaten.

Liz: 0:49

And my rosebush.

Ben: 0:54

Oh yeah, all the things, so I'm trying to figure out how to get them out all the all of the trees that we don't want to be eaten, and my rosebush.

Liz: 0:56

Oh yeah, all the things. So I'm trying to try to figure out how to how to get them on the things we do want them to eat and other things. Well, and they're figuring it out, but also to the kids. Our kids are having to step up and have responsible yeah responsibility. Um, it's pretty awesome to watch. You know they're still weaning and so the kids have to get up early in the morning and feed them and feeding them throughout the day and at night.

Liz: 1:09

It's pretty awesome. So we're turning into farmers, Like what is going on. I did not know that that was in the marriage contract, though.

Ben: 1:18

Yeah, I didn't know that it's because we're not busy enough. We just needed that. Oh, we need more things.

Liz: 1:22

Yes, let's just have some more, yeah. So, with that being said, let's just throw in a very hot topic, because this is something that is near to dear in our hearts. So what are we talking about today, ben?

Ben: 1:33

We're talking about the importance of travel and we're going to frame it within the family context, like we do most things, but travel is one of those things that both Liz and I love to do.

Liz: 1:43

We love it.

Ben: 1:44

And so we don't have to argue about going on trips. It's actually one of our first priorities that we think about through the year as we plan, but we've just been traveling for so long and doing it so often, even when we had kids yes. It's just kind of part of our DNA as a family. So, yeah, we're just going to break that down a little bit and just talk about.

Liz: 2:04

Well, I think too. People are usually curious like you guys have six kids. How did you travel with them when they were super little? I mean, people would literally look me in the eye and say you guys are crazy and we're like well maybe we are, but because true, because we were traveling halfway across the country.

Ben: 2:23

Multiple times, yeah, yeah, you know. 18 to 20 hours, thousands of miles, as a family 18 to 20 hours straight without stopping.

Liz: 2:32

You know we wouldn't even stop and get a hotel because it was too chaotic sometimes to get a hotel. Sometimes we did, but most of the time we didn't. But I mean even like in that, you know we found some tips and tricks along the way, but but it's also part of it, like you said, that part of our DNA, dna. And it's funny when you do things and you realize that science supports it.

Ben: 2:49

later you're like oh Okay, how about that? Yeah, how about that? How about that? Yeah, I think that's an important aspect of it. It's like we felt compelled to do it. We knew we loved it. We knew that there was something good about it. Yeah, it's just we couldn't necessarily nail it down. No, Like we kind of went back and we're like, oh, there is some science-y stuff to the reasons why.

Liz: 3:10

Which you know if you've been watching or listening to this podcast. You definitely know that Ben loves anything that's science-y, that's backing up, yeah, the neuroscience, the brain science, the brain science. We enjoy that.

Ben: 3:21

But I think the reason why we enjoy that is because a lot of times it's fun to go and see what scientists are coming up with or experiencing or concluding, Because a lot of what they find we find it to be along the same lines as like some of the biblical mandates that we've always known or we grew up with. And so one of those is to basically go and make disciples of all nations. So that probably requires travel, I would imagine.

Ben: 3:52

Absolutely it's not too much of a leap to think that, okay, that means going All nations, Not just staying.

Liz: 3:57

But going Right going.

Ben: 3:58

And experiencing different cultures and, like Paul says, he becomes all things to all men.

Liz: 4:03

Yeah.

Ben: 4:04

And so there's some biblical mandate I guess you would call it in this concept of travel and specifically from a mission standpoint, but there's also just some really cool things that happen when you travel, when you experience different culture, and, as you were growing up, and as I was growing up, my grandparents were the ones that took us on trips when we were growing up and every now and then my dad and my mom would take us somewhere, but it was very limited because of the finances and if we did, it was through camping because it was the least expensive that was out there.

Liz: 4:39

Lots of camping. But those are my fondest memories growing up as a kid and those are the things that I remember. I don't really remember presents and those kinds of things, but I do remember the experiences and we wanted to give that to our kids, and so a lot of people out there that are raising families they want to do the exact same thing, or maybe you're thinking, one day, these are the things that I want to instill in our family.

Ben: 4:56

Yeah.

Liz: 4:56

And so, yeah, we're going to tackle that.

Ben: 4:58

Yeah. So I mean, let's dive into that point though, because you brought up a good little tidbit there which was remembering trips over gifts. Yeah, remembering trips over gifts, and so there's actually studies that show that when we travel, it invokes a certain, a different way that we put that into our memory system right. So like getting gifts or traveling a lot of times the travel experiences become more poignant of a memory.

Liz: 5:26

And you even tested that out.

Ben: 5:27

You asked our kids something right?

Liz: 5:28

Yes, I did. I just took a poll with our kids because they were all locked in my car with me and we were driving around and I was like, hey, you guys, what are some things that you love that mom and dad give you? And they said they love traveling. And then I was like, well, what about what we gave you for Christmas? And nobody could really remember what they got for Christmas. Like just Christmas, you know really, guys. But they can remember all these trips.

Ben: 5:50

Well, we went on a pretty decent trip this past year.

Liz: 5:53

We did, we did, we surprised them by taking them to their favorite amusement park in Branson, Missouri, which is quite a hike for us because we're in the South and they got to go at Christmas time.

Ben: 6:05

And it was like very beautiful oh it's extremely beautiful. Yeah.

Liz: 6:08

I'm kind of ruined now. I'm like I'm not going in, I'm not going during the summer, I'm only going to go during Christmas. But anyway.

Ben: 6:17

But I think that's really cool, right? So there's studies that show that those experiences, those travel experiences, are stored differently and they even take a little bit more precedence. I don't know how to necessarily frame that, but like they're almost more important memory, and maybe more core memory, than actual gifts, right, and I'm sure that's not true for everybody, but by and large those travel experiences are more memorable than even some of the gifts we give.

Ben: 6:41

So fun, and I think part of that is because travel activates the brain's novelty seeking reward system. So that's just a fancy way of saying, like, when you come into something new that stretches your mind Absolutely, it kind of uses things in your brain that maybe haven't been used in a while. So when you experience something new, be it ideas or culture or even travel. There's actually something of a reward that we get.

Ben: 7:11

It's like a like a dopamine hit if you will, but having those new experiences are things that kind of excite us. Just the way that our brains are made Like those are fun things.

Liz: 7:21

Absolutely, and I'm just thinking like we would. We do this, We'll take the kids on a hike to go up to the part like a high part of a mountain and see the most beautiful view. Yeah, and to the part like a high part of a mountain and see the most beautiful view and have our lunch up there, yeah. That's a nice little reward. Yeah, it's a great reward especially when everybody can sit down and have lunch.

Liz: 7:34

Yeah, and they're all tired out from hiking Well and whoever's carrying the backpack is so happy that everybody starts eating all the food and drinking the water.

Ben: 7:41

So it gets lighter on the way back.

Liz: 7:42

On the way back, yeah.

Ben: 7:44

Yeah, that's true, and so there's a few like biblical precedents for travel that we kind of skipped over a little bit, but just real quick. So Abraham's journey into a new land right, God called him out of his country to leave his comfort zone behind and to go, and so that's a pretty massive mandate. And then also Paul's missionary journeys. Like that expanded, I think, the early church's experiences so much right, absolutely, because you think about they were in Jerusalem, mostly in Israel.

Ben: 8:15

And then here's this guy, paul comes along and starts spreading to the rest of the world. And then all of a sudden you've got a multicultural expression now. Right yeah, in the new church and so-.

Liz: 8:27

All kinds of people, and that came with new challenges too. I'm even thinking of the eunuch from Ethiopia.

Ben: 8:33

Oh yeah, you know, philip went to him and you know, then all of Ethiopia.

Liz: 8:38

It had to have blown their minds, right? I mean yes.

Ben: 8:41

God's moving on all these different people now you know, because Jesus' ministry is mostly to the Jews, right To the Jewish people.

Liz: 8:47

He even said that it was like a precedence Right, and so he sent is mostly to the Jews, right Right To the Jewish people.

Ben: 8:50

He even said that it was like a precedence. Right and so he sent them out to the households of.

Liz: 8:53

Israel, yep.

Ben: 8:54

And then all of a sudden it explodes and expands to all these other cultures and I mean that must have been fun.

Liz: 9:00

I would have loved to have been there. And challenging yeah, challenging yeah, but still fun.

Ben: 9:04

Absolutely so. Moving just a little bit along here, there's also this travel effect that is spoken about by the Columbia Business School of Research, and it shows that international travel increases cognitive flexibility and also makes us more agreeable.

Liz: 9:22

Isn't that great. That's pretty crazy. I feel like I should shake your hand here. Just shake my hand, we're agreeable. I agree with you on this, but I think it maybe puts us in a place where we're agreeable.

Ben: 9:31

I agree with you on this, but I think it maybe puts us in a place where we're a bit more empathetic and we come into different people groups absolutely and we start to see things through different lenses maybe absolutely um, but I think you have a bit of an interesting story of when we're traveling, where maybe, uh, you were more empathetic to someone who was trying to make a little bit of a joke.

Liz: 9:50

Are you which one?

Ben: 9:53

When you were with the kids.

Liz: 9:54

When I was with the kids.

Ben: 9:55

And I wasn't there.

Liz: 9:56

Okay, is this at a hotel? Okay, I know which story you're talking about. So, oh, this is a story. Okay, here we go. So this is back when I was one of the tallest people in our family. So that was a long time ago, Everybody surpassed me and except for one kid, I only have one that's shorter than me, but he will be taller than me Anyway. So I you had, we had a like an adjoining room, so we had all the kids and two, we're in a hotel at this.

Liz: 10:24

I don't know where we were, it doesn't matter, but we were on a trip and you ran to go, put our go bags and the um in the car yeah and I took the kids to the breakfast and as I was coming in, I of course I had a whole entourage behind me.

Liz: 10:38

I mean, it's like stair steps mother duck yeah mother duck and here comes all the ducklings and as we walked into the room where this, this breakfast, was taking place it was, it was talkative, like as we're coming in you could hear everybody talking and clinking and you know their glasses and their silverware and stuff. And as soon as you walk in it went dead silence, dead silence. And I'm thinking, oh, okay, so I just like walk in with my kids and I like look around to see okay, where can I put my kids? You know we have eight people when you'd be able to sit down and all this kind of stuff. And this man is sitting to the left of me and he has a newspaper and he puts his newspaper down and he looks at me and he says, in front of the entire room of all and your kids too.

Liz: 11:15

And the kids in front of everybody, which, if you have a larger family, this comment that I'm about to say you have heard it happens, it happens. In fact, we used to had a dollar we could pay for our kids going to college. Like it's ridiculous. So anyway, he says you know how that happens, right?

Ben: 11:36

Meaning you know how these kids yeah.

Liz: 11:38

Yeah, Are all those yours? This is what he said Are all those yours? I said yes, he goes. You know how that happens, right? And I said yes, and we love it it.

Ben: 11:47

I don't think I wasn't there. I would have been embarrassed.

Liz: 11:49

Well, and I'm a little spicy, like let's just say you should. Yeah, you know.

Ben: 11:56

And first, of all like watch it, dude.

Liz: 11:57

You're like saying this in front of my children. I don't ever want to think like people will be like, wow, you have your hands full and I'm like it's a happy handful, because I don't want my kids to think that they're a burden.

Ben: 12:04

Right.

Liz: 12:04

And I don't want them to think that we are just, you know, sad or unhappy. We're super thankful, like we are grateful we have every single one of them. And so as soon as I said that and yes, we love it the whole the man started laughing and the whole room started laughing and it just like broke the broke the atmosphere. And then it was interesting he came up to me and he was just like I can tell, you're doing a good job, you know. I was like well, thank you. And of course, the only table that was available was a high top table with like high stools, and we had like a two year old and like a three year old and a four year old, which was like a nightmare to have them sitting on these stools with eggs and everything was on the floor. I think we even left a tip for the person who had to come and clean. Come and clean. I just felt so bad. But anyway, you know, because they're kids, they're going to make messes.

Ben: 12:52

It's just how it is. But yeah, maybe he got a little empathy after hearing your.

Liz: 12:55

I think he did.

Ben: 12:56

I think he did.

Liz: 12:57

I mean, we've heard all kinds of comments and you're going to hear them, no matter where you are. It's true, and that was someplace, and I only know where.

Ben: 13:03

Yeah, Even no matter what you do too. I mean like we could be doing a really great job of making sure everyone is accounted for. Right and we still get the wow. You guys are busy Wow.

Liz: 13:12

Do you own a TV? Yeah, do you have a TV. Do you have a TV at home?

Ben: 13:16

Yeah, yeah, there was one time I almost said it, which I'm glad I didn't but someone said something to the effect of like well, you must be busy, you know, kind of just implying that all these kids are just taking up all my time. And as far as I could tell, they were a single person and I wanted to shoot back and be like, well, you must be lonely. But then I was like, oh, that's the wrong spirit, but that's kind of how it comes across right, it's like oh you must be busy.

Ben: 13:43

It's like you're overwhelmed.

Liz: 13:46

You just don't go say that to somebody, right, I know, but we, like you don't. You just don't go say that to somebody, right I know? But we've had that's happened a lot, yeah, and it's okay. We, we bless everybody. But I think the ultimate thing was is here we are at a hotel with all these kids and whatever. You know, we know it's a lot of kids, but you know we love what moving on, let's go back, go back oh goodness, goodness okay, so um real quick.

Ben: 14:09

Another thing that we found just just doing a little research is there's also studies that show experiencing different cultures can increase empathy and reduce bias.

Liz: 14:18

Absolutely.

Ben: 14:19

And so that's pretty cool too. And then another thing is like the type of family travel memories that happen and, like we said, some of those memories kind of just get processed different and stored away differently and they're easier to recall. So when that happens and you have those moments where we're traveling as families, it can actually strengthen the family bonds Absolutely, because you're faced with challenges, you're faced with new things, there's that novelty process that's working in your brain and so when all that's happening and you're doing it with the ones you love, then, that creates even more attachment and stronger bonds with the family.

Ben: 14:52

So there's like multiple ways in which traveling as a family is awesome.

Liz: 14:58

Yes, there's like just some really cool rewards it is. It's pretty awesome. We're so thankful and grateful we get to do it. Yeah, it's fun.

Ben: 15:05

And so let's just jump to our stories of traveling as we were younger Because I feel like we had similar things happen to us and that might have stoked kind of the fires of wanting to travel, wanting to experience international culture and stuff like that. But what happened to you when you were a teenager?

Liz: 15:29

I went on my first missions trip to Jamaica at 12 years old.

Ben: 15:33

12 years old, right, I was 12.

Liz: 15:34

I was really young.

Ben: 15:35

Wow and went for.

Liz: 15:36

I think it was eight days Okay, over a week and we were there and it opened my eyes up to something outside of my comfort zone, as you would say. I mean it was our bubble. Yeah, because we didn't have any air conditioning comfort zone as you would say I mean, it was our bubble, yeah, cause we didn't have any air conditioning.

Liz: 15:51

Um, we ate goat with hair on it that had been making noises the morning of I know I mean it was it was quite like, but we were there serving a local mission and you know they were bringing us their very best but it was quite something very different and something began to be sparked inside of me for the nations and I thought, okay, I would love to go to the nations. So that was me at 12. You did something at 15.

Ben: 16:20

I did something at 15. So I was not kind of interested in doing international stuff. I guess I just, you know, I was just normal teen, not really on my radar, but I happened to take art as my freshman sorry when I was a freshman in high school.

Liz: 16:38

Imagine that he took art people. Imagine that.

Ben: 16:41

Well, I signed up for band or something. I can't remember how that worked, but I actually was thinking I would do more band stuff, but somehow my schedule got mixed and I ended up taking art instead. And so I just tried it out and was like, oh, okay, I kind of like this.

Liz: 16:52

Direction for the rest of your life.

Ben: 16:53

Yeah, for sure. So the teacher who was the art teacher in my high school, she got picked to do this exchange student thing and it was with Russia, and so we would basically have a Russian come live with us for a month and then there'd be a month break and then we'd go live with them. And so we would basically have a Russian come live with us for a month and then there'd be a month break and then we'd go live with them, and so it's like an exchange, yeah, like an exchange except you're there, you're not actually switching places with that person, right?

Ben: 17:20

So my parents, let me go at 15. 15. Which I don't think I would do with my 15-year-old, especially in today's Russia. A little different back in the 90s, but anyways. So I went and, man, it was mind-blowing. First, it was mind-blowing to have a Russian come live with me.

Ben: 17:40

But the crazy thing about it was that he was very similar to me like similar humor, similar build, similar interests, and so it was just funny that that happened and we took him to Disney World and we did some things and some Florida things, took him to the beach and stuff, and then we go over there and I went with three other students and the art teacher and man, it was just such a wild experience.

Liz: 18:04

Didn't they have like a parade for you guys? It?

Ben: 18:06

was so different I can't tell you how different it was when he came and our school, our high school, basically announced it over the intercom.

Ben: 18:15

hey, we have some internationals that are gonna be here for a month make them feel welcome, and that was like the extent of what we did to introduce him to our school. But when we got over there, they had the mayor of the town. Yep, they had a parade, they had like all this culinary just stuff ready for us to eat. I mean it was like a smorgasbord and like it was crazy, had like a little speech and everything, and so they really like did it way up, you know.

Ben: 18:45

And I think it was to impress us because they knew we were American, obviously, but it was just so cool to see a different culture and to experience that. I mean I felt so changed afterwards it was like I was enlightened, really.

Liz: 18:58

Right, and you didn't have hot showers.

Ben: 19:01

Yeah, and the winter there's a lot of things I didn't have when we were over there Winter, which also was kind of mind-blowing, because then you realize how good you have it. Exactly, you know especially when you experience different cultures that might not be as affluent.

Liz: 19:14

Yep.

Ben: 19:15

And so this culture wasn't, but they were still very proud people, not proud in the bad sense, but proud of their culture and proud of their hospitality, which I got to take part of, and it was amazing. It just was so mind blowing. Here I am a 15 year old little punk, 15 year old, thinks he's on the top of the world and then be able to see such a unique difference from what I've experienced thus far in life.

Liz: 19:39

It was really really cool, really eye opening. I love it. I know I was just remembering, when we went to Jamaica, where we were in the missions, like there were kids that didn't have shoes and it was eye opening, you know, very imprinted on me at a very young age.

Ben: 19:51

Yeah, and when you don't have things like hot showers right For a long period of time, you really start to think well, wow, I always took that for granted but, here I am halfway around the world, not having it like man. There's some things that are really luxuries that we have here in the. States, and not to make us feel bad about having them, but just to also be having that gratitude that comes along with it.

Ben: 20:15

Be like man thank you, Lord, that we actually get to have some of this stuff and we don't take it for granted.

Liz: 20:20

That's right. That's the main thing. That's right, that's right, yeah. And then I had a really awesome experience where I got to go to the Middle East for two years.

Ben: 20:31

And you lived there. I lived in the Middle East with my sister. How old were you?

Liz: 20:34

I was 19. She was 18. Yeah, we got to go work in a coffee shop and that's like our two oldest going over there.

Ben: 20:41

Can you imagine? Nope.

Liz: 20:43

I mean I would if it was to be. But I look back at that and I go wow.

Liz: 20:47

And all my roommates. But I look back at that and I go, wow, and all of my roommates, all of our roommates, were from other parts of the world. It's a very like where we were at. It's very international, so we had so many tourists and internationals and other nations and it really opened my eyes up to what we have in America and what is available in the rest of the world.

Liz: 21:09

And I still have many good friendships that I had there, that we stay in contact. You know from different ones and even though I haven't seen them in gosh, 25 years plus longer yeah, no longer, it's got to be like 27 years. That makes me old, but it's still like there's a special bond with us because we experienced so many things together. And it was just amazing for me because in the Middle East I was able to go into Europe, I did go to Egypt, I was able to go and travel other countries and because I'd made friends, I went and visited them in other countries and it was just really neat. Even recently, when you and I were traveling last year overseas, we came in contact with somebody that was a friend from those days that I haven't seen.

Ben: 21:58

I haven't seen since, you know, and it was like crazy because we just picked right up yeah.

Liz: 22:03

And I mean oceans apart, worlds apart. You know, we've both gotten married, we've moved, you know, different places in our life, but it's just, it was so, so good how both my sister and my other sister ended up coming. So myself and my other two sisters, we, you know, got to experience that and it just opened my eyes up to that what's out there, you know, and the new experiences, and we got to do all kinds of crazy, amazing things.

Ben: 22:31

I mean, we went spelunking there's some things you shouldn't have done.

Liz: 22:36

My mom's going to listen to this? Maybe not. I'm just kidding. It was all good, but I mean it was. Like you know, we're in parts of the world that maybe weren't the safest.

Ben: 22:44

Yeah, especially being no-transcript.

Liz: 23:16

We were around many different languages, we were not just around english. And so watching these parents with these little kids because you and I have raised little kids and just watching these kids have serious meltdowns because the mom broke the cookie in half, and I don't speak their language, I don't even know where they're from, and I'm listening, but it's common. But it's common. Or the banana broke, oh my gosh, at breakfast.

Ben: 23:39

You know, I mean it's just normal Get your tape out, fix that thing, yeah, you can't fix a banana when it breaks breaks.

Liz: 23:44

but you know, I mean, just like you know they're tired, they're sleepy, they're, you know, just the normal little things. And I remember we were around um a dad and his teenagers and he was being goofy and like poking. And yeah, you remember that he's kind of like poking at him and all the things, and they were getting so annoyed with their dad and I don't even know their language.

Liz: 24:01

Yeah, I'm like, I don't even know their language, but it's, it's, they're humans, yeah, you know, and it takes the mystery out of yes I think sometimes we don't go there because we just think bad people sure, and when they're humans, right just trying to live and have a life too yeah, yeah, oh yeah.

Ben: 24:20

So traveling gives that experience. It does, I think. I mean, I think it's as simple as like, traveling connects us with God's multicultural vision.

Liz: 24:29

Absolutely.

Ben: 24:30

And we see that multicultural vision in the end of the age right.

Liz: 24:35

And.

Ben: 24:35

Revelation 7, 9.

Liz: 24:36

Oh yeah.

Ben: 24:37

Every tribe, tongue, people and language, and so it's like inclusive of everybody, yes, and that can't be understated. I think when you start to experience every tribe, every people, every language, every nation right, that it kind of expands a lot of things, for I think it expands our, our empathy obviously.

Liz: 24:58

Yes.

Ben: 24:58

But it expands our idea of God as well, Like the fact that he wants all these people, he wants every nation. It kind of gets us out of our maybe nationalistic mindset a little bit, and not that you shouldn't be a patriot, but like if you only think about your nation you don't consider that God loves the nations of the earth, then you can kind of short circuit some of who God is. So I think we have to keep our minds open. I think it's really good to experience other nations, other people, groups, and there's even something that happened in Mark I think that perfectly illustrates this. Jesus, when's our kind of the epitome of peace, what we think of?

Liz: 25:40

I guess you know, Prince of Peace, I don't know, I don't know.

Ben: 25:52

He's like acting, driving these people out.

Liz: 25:55

Yeah, right, and just like with a whip. Yep.

Ben: 25:59

Like that kind of rattles us a little bit. We're like, oh whoa, what's going on here, jesus you know. But look at what he says, and this is in Mark, which is funny because Mark has this little extra piece, whereas Matthew and Luke, I don't think, has this extra piece, but it's when he's driving him out. He says is it not written my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations.

Ben: 26:22

That for all nations piece is specific to Mark. Yeah, but that's where the money changing was happening was in the court of the Gentiles.

Liz: 26:32

Right.

Ben: 26:37

So it wasn't just the fact that, like you know, there was the money changing going on and it was becoming this place of business, like that was bad, but I think what was even worse is that it was stopping the Gentiles from coming and worshiping like they should be able to in the temple, and so that reference to my house should be called a house of prayer of all nations goes back to Isaiah, and so that's what's super important is like connecting our heart to that piece to know that God wants to be inclusive of all the nations and to be able to give them a way to worship.

Ben: 27:04

So it's important. It's important that we kind of keep our minds open to including all nations in that, in that piece.

Liz: 27:11

Yes, yes, and what a place to be. We went to Israel you and I?

Ben: 27:17

Yeah, we did, we got to travel there. That was amazing. It was an awesome trip. It was amazing, yes, yeah.

Liz: 27:21

All my Hebrew started coming back.

Ben: 27:22

Yeah, All mine did too which is very little so it wasn't a feat or anything. But, let's talk just a little bit about so. When we were newly married and we were raising our family, we didn't really get to travel a ton internationally. We travel around the US quite a bit, but what was cool about where the kids grew up and being part of a ministry that was multicultural? Is that we had tons of nations come to us.

Liz: 27:53

Yes, and that was a beautiful revelation because, as a mom, having these little ones and feeling like my heart is in the nations and I had been so in touch and going to different countries and all these things, and then all of a sudden it was like we get married and all that stops. And I remember when the Lord gave me this revelation and he said I'm going to bring the nations to you. And that was beautiful because it wasn't us stepping into these nations, but these people were coming and sitting at our kitchen table.

Liz: 28:24

They were sleeping in our spare bedroom. You know they were staying with us. I mean we had many from all over the world.

Ben: 28:31

Well, we had three sets of Germans. We had an Egyptian we had someone from South America, yeah.

Liz: 28:37

And that's not including who would just come to our house to eat with us.

Ben: 28:40

That's who stayed with us for an ample amount of time.

Liz: 28:43

Yeah, and even some repeating coming back and we've we've developed friendships with them and it was just so beautiful because it gave our children that opportunity to see like they're speaking in another language you know, that they're loving, you know, and and also to for some of them that were coming and sitting at our kitchen table and having dinner with us, it was healing to their hearts, you know, because kids, in a way, soften.

Ben: 29:11

They do.

Liz: 29:11

No matter what nationality you are.

Ben: 29:13

They do, and, like some of these people too, they weren't the same denomination that we grew up in no Right.

Liz: 29:19

It was amazing Some of them were even like pretty drastically different. I mean, we had Catholic and we had just all kinds A Coptic and we had just all kinds A.

Ben: 29:26

Coptic yeah, we had a Coptic coming. I can't remember Coptic, something Egyptian.

Liz: 29:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah, egyptian.

Ben: 29:30

But it was just neat to like man, you kind of give up some of your bias about what you think about these different sects or these different denominations and just connect with people that still love the Lord. Absolutely Like that was so fun.

Liz: 29:43

Yeah.

Ben: 29:43

Just being able to have kind of that unique experience with different people For our kids to have that. Yes, yeah, that was really cool. The kids.

Liz: 29:50

When they got home to their countries, they mailed little gifts to our kids.

Ben: 29:53

Yes.

Liz: 29:53

And so you know, the kids got really neat things.

Ben: 29:55

Remember the German candy that we got from our German friends?

Liz: 29:57

Yeah, well, I'm also thinking from Korea and Cambodia. Yeah, and just like was just neat and I love. I love culture Like you love culture and we love learning about culture. And um, some of our kids prefer it more than others, you know. But but it's, it's all about this within this context of travel. It's giving them that experience.

Ben: 30:23

Yeah, and there is even a little research that shows like when kids are exposed to different like faith expressions, yes, then it can actually develop stronger personal faith in them. And so specifically I mean like different faith expressions within our faith, right, so within Christianity, when they see people who express the love for the Lord in slightly different ways, I think it expands their view of the Lord, expands their own relationship with the Lord, and it's just, it's a really neat side effect.

Liz: 30:51

I'm just smiling because I'm thinking like how, on Easter and Christmas, we've done some different church services different denominations.

Ben: 31:01

Some were better than others, and the kids are like save me, yeah, we had one time where they're like we don't ever want to go back there.

Liz: 31:08

Well, it was only because it was so late at night and they were so tired and it was so long. Even I was falling asleep I was like this is long, but anyway.

Ben: 31:16

But I'm thinking of, even, like, christmas Eve. Yes, it's so wonderful, so beautiful. We love it.

Liz: 31:25

We love it.

Ben: 31:25

It is.

Liz: 31:26

And for us, I mean we draw closer to the Lord and it's good to be with other believers in this city.

Ben: 31:30

So anyway, all right, there's a. There's a CS Lewis quote that I won't go through because it's super long. It is very long.

Liz: 31:36

He started reading it to me and I started glassing over and I was like, and then he says out of his own mouth, I'll. I will shorten it. I won't keep it so long so, by the way, this is my gift to you. If you're listening, you can thank me later. Go ahead and say in the comments yeah, thank you when her eyes were glassing over I'm like I was like where is he going with this?

Ben: 31:56

this is very long. Basically, cs lewis likens to uh literary, so like being able to read um different novels and different uh books right he likens that to experiencing a thousand different viewpoints or a thousand different eyes, like looking through the world through a thousand different eyes, and he's saying, like it's a prison to just limit ourselves to our own perspectives, and I thought that's so deep and I'm like man travel is kind of like that. You kind of break out of your bubble or your prison, if you will.

Ben: 32:26

I don't want to make it sound so terrible, but you break out of your bubble and it's a way to rub shoulders, to have novel experiences and to see the world through a different set of eyes.

Liz: 32:38

Yes, absolutely, and it's really cool. I think that's a really cool and you do not have to go that far to see this. You can be in America.

Ben: 32:48

You could be in America. You could go to the nations that are already here Absolutely, and meet people and develop friendships and experience culture and it's like a. It's a good thing.

Liz: 32:54

Find a local Ethiopian restaurant. There, you go, you know, find, I mean, there's so many amazing places to eat you know and take your family with you.

Ben: 33:09

You know, maybe you make it, maybe you make it a goal to go and visit some of these places so the kids can have the experience. We have our favorite little Peruvian restaurant that we like oh yeah, we do Really good. Oh, it's pricey. What's that Coconut con leche thing?

Liz: 33:15

Oh, it's so good, it's so good and, of course, every server we ever get is awesome.

Ben: 33:21

You and I are asking questions.

Liz: 33:22

Yes, we want to know their story and how they came here to America and all this stuff, but anyway, okay, it's really cool. Yeah it's fun.

Ben: 33:36

One thing I think is kind of interesting to note is Christianity. The percentage of where Christians live in the globe has shifted over the last several hundred years, but nearly 70% of all Christians live in three different areas Africa, asia and Latin America. That's kind of wild.

Liz: 33:51

It is crazy when you think about that.

Ben: 33:53

The majority of Christians alive today are not from the. West right, nope, that's pretty crazy. Yeah, used to be a European religion.

Liz: 34:03

Right Now it's like well, not so much, and there's a massive underground church.

Ben: 34:06

Yes.

Liz: 34:07

Over in Asia. Oh yeah, not so much.

Ben: 34:08

And there's a massive underground church yes, over in Asia. Oh yeah, huge in China, yeah.

Liz: 34:10

It's big. We have no clue about any of that.

Ben: 34:14

No, especially persecution. Uh-uh, yeah, yeah.

Liz: 34:17

Voice of the martyrs. If ever you're wondering about any of that, if you look that up, that will blow your mind of what's happening to our brothers and sisters around the world. Yeah, yeah.

Ben: 34:25

It's intense, but it's also good to connect with the Lord's heart on that too, and like realize, like that's going on, not just sweeping under the rug, but pray for them, help them any way you can.

Liz: 34:35

Yes.

Ben: 34:36

We're super important, yep. So let's jump into a few practicals.

Liz: 34:40

Oh good, I love practicals. I love this. This is my love language.

Ben: 34:44

We've been traveling ever since we've had kids, especially nationally and then internationally. We've done some stuff together as a couple, but just with large families. What does it mean to travel?

Liz: 35:03

And what are some things that can help? Ooh, I don't know what's your number one tip Ben, Go to bed early and your wife does everything while you're sleeping.

Ben: 35:10

That works really well for me. I feel like I've got a lot of success saying to Liz hey, I've got to drive, so I got to go to bed early while you finish packing.

Liz: 35:19

Oh, yes, yes, yes.

Ben: 35:20

How does that affect you?

Liz: 35:22

Well, first of all, I forgive you. The first thing that I say in my heart is I forgive Ben, and I'm going to keep a short account because I'm going to be in a car with him tomorrow all day. But here's the deal when we get in the car, you're like turbo dad, like you're only going to drive, like you, you have the energy.

Ben: 35:39

Yeah, yeah.

Liz: 35:41

You don't want to share. I mean, every now and then you've let me jump behind the wheel and we have a 12 passenger van because we have so many kids, but we had a minivan for years. You know, honda, that that sat eight you know, but everybody was next to each other, and then they started growing and their feet were big, and so we had to take each other as they were climbing over the seat and we're like, okay, we got to change this, so we got a bigger one.

Liz: 36:01

But um, anyway, sometimes you'll let me drive, so you know you do go to sleep early and that's fine. We have exposed all of that on our one blessed mess, ben, his sleep habits. Basically, if Ben's up late talking to you, consider it a gift. That's what it is. If he's staying up past like 10, it's a gift and all of our family is saying, yes, this is true, this is true. Okay, what was your question again?

Ben: 36:27

I forgot your tips. Oh gosh, practical, practical tips.

Liz: 36:32

Okay, well, I mean, I think, just the first thing is obviously packing.

Ben: 36:35

Yeah.

Liz: 36:36

And so with a large family when they were little, I would. This is just really quick and you know if you don't have little kids or you do have little kids, hopefully this is helpful. But I would just lay out you know so many pairs of shorts, so many pairs of pants, shirts, underwear, socks, if there are diapers, diapers and wipes, bags for the diapers, because sometimes you're not always able to find a trash can to put the diaper in, especially if you're on the side of the road and you're having to change a blowout. And then also too, depending on what our schedule would be if we were going to stay in a hotel, always my tip is pack an overnight bag where it has everybody's nighties or night-night clothes and then a change of clothes for the next day, and sometimes you know, if somebody was potty, training or something like that, I'd throw in a couple extra things of clothes.

Ben: 37:21

Yes, I remember. So we would make this one route pretty much yearly and there was a patch on the route where it was like in the mountains. Yes, and we had kids throw up probably every year for like a good four or five years.

Liz: 37:36

Yeah, it was, and part of it was you're driving. I'm just kidding, I don't know that probably was, but like as soon as we would hit the mountains. We're like everybody. Stop reading your books, you know and we like turn off the video.

Liz: 37:48

If we had like a video going in the car and we're like everybody pay attention and I start handing out gum. But if they're little we give them like little Tic Tacs or something just to kind of give peppermint, but these kids would just get sick. I don't know what was going on. I don't know if it's because they were in their car seats and the swaying in the car sick.

Ben: 38:02

Well, 20 plus hours yeah.

Liz: 38:06

So we would pull over and somebody would upchuck and, oh my gosh, then it'd be the car seat.

Ben: 38:11

Cleaning the car seat after you've traveled like 15 hours and having to know that you're just adding extra hours at night when you're super tired, oh man, and there's been some times that that happened and we decided to get a hotel room, so I would already have a go bag just in case, because we didn't know what was happening. So be flexible.

Liz: 38:29

Yeah, and we have actually left clothes at rest stops and I'm not taking. I don't want to keep them in the car, I don't care about these shorts and these shirts, and we're just throwing them away.

Ben: 38:39

It's not worth it.

Liz: 38:40

Well, I remember our first time traveling with our firstborn and he was only like a month old and we stopped at a Chick-fil-A and I had a hard time healing after his delivery. And I made it into the, you know, made it into the restroom and all the things and, um, apparently you and my brother were sitting there and they heard a loud uh rip come from our son who was sitting in his carrier. And they, what did you think? You thought, oh, that's probably a blowout.

Ben: 39:06

Yeah, and we're like that's a poop. And then he kept going and we're like, oh yeah, yeah, I don't think we should change that, we should let mom handle that.

Liz: 39:12

Yeah, so I come out of the bathroom still healing from having a baby tired and all the things.

Ben: 39:17

Well, you're just such an expert at that thing.

Liz: 39:28

And I'm like, all right, guys, let's go. And then you're like, I think, elisha did something and I'm like what?

Ben: 39:32

And so I go over. The kid has it from the top of his head down to his feet and they let it, let it happen.

Liz: 39:34

I just threw that thing away and still, to this day, whenever we pass that particular Chick-fil-A somewhere in Alabama, I always say and that is where we threw away his onesie, and so anyway, all that to say, just have.

Ben: 39:48

It's very on brand our 1BM yeah our 1BM.

Liz: 39:51

So just keep a practical change of clothes there, and then I'm just going to go through some of these that I wrote down real fast. You know, having a cooler with food. We've had different allergies, gluten issues, things like that.

Ben: 40:03

dairy issues oh man, eating on the road is hard.

Liz: 40:05

Yes, it can be, and we do not like fast food so much, it doesn't. We just don't eat like that, and so when we're traveling, we don't really want to eat like that. So we've done things. Like you know, I'll have like bags of carrots and cut up cucumbers and have like rolled up you know, lunch meat.

Liz: 40:21

You know healthy lunch meat. Or you know handing out pieces of rolls like Hawaiian rolls or something like that. So we're not just eating fried food and nuggets and greasy hamburgers. Even if we don't have that on us and if we're running out, we'll stop at a Walmart or a grocery store and I'll run in and just quickly get supplies Instead of going somewhere for fast food.

Liz: 40:40

Yeah, Well, and it saves our family a lot of money by doing that and we will, you know, stop at like a Panera or something like that often, you know to maybe go and get like soup.

Ben: 40:50

Well, it helps me also be able to drive longer too.

Liz: 40:54

Yeah, if.

Ben: 40:54

I'm not filling up on, you know, burgers and fries and fried foods, right Like I can actually feel more awake when I'm traveling and you're not getting food poisoning, which we've had.

Liz: 41:05

We've had food poisoning, yeah, on trips, and you know that's no fun when it hits everybody at the same time and we all got food poisoning from said restaurant, and I'll just leave that there.

Liz: 41:17

OK, so with little ones real quick. This is something I always did is I always had a busy bag and they each had their own busy bag. I just found them like in a dollar section of a Target or a Walmart and really in the busy bag was like coloring books, crayons. I'd have like magnetic toys, little cars, little stuffed animals, things in there. Just kind of keep them busy and we can exchange the busy bags. Of course we didn't exchange the coloring books because then it would be like pandemonium, like oh my gosh, that's mine. But we did that or I did that. And then also I had like little snack bags in there, so you know, they could eat their little carrots or their little goldfish or you know whatever. It was cheese, it's something that they had in there, the grapes and things like that to kind of keep the trip going. And I would also make sure that I was handing them out like the snacks spaced out because, some kids could down all those snacks within the first five minutes of the trip.

Liz: 42:08

And you're like we just left at 5 am and it's only 5.30 and they're all done. The other thing is is a lot of times we some people can do this. They travel through the night. We've always chosen not to travel through the night.

Ben: 42:20

We tried, we did One time. Yeah, we tried to drive through the night and we did okay, but our son didn't, our oldest son, he just every time the lights from oncoming cars would hit his windows. He would just wake up and he was not a happy camper. So we felt that we should probably give up on that idea. But some people can. Some people can do that.

Liz: 42:39

We have friends that do that with big families they drive through the night, especially with multiple drivers, that you have older kids they can help with the. You know all that, but we don't. We just get up early and we drive through the day and then we finish at night wherever we're going. So, um, that's typically how we do it. And then, um, the last thing is audio books, and I just felt like this should go in there because it just keeps the trip short.

Ben: 43:02

Yeah, we've gone through an entire audio book, sometimes, like in our long travel stints, and the kids actually lock in pretty good. I mean, you got to do things that are age appropriate, but we did, we've done, odyssey. We did the Wing Feather Saga. All of the Wing Feather we've done Green, ember Green.

Liz: 43:19

Ember. We did all of those we Green Ember, green Ember. We did all of those We've done the Lamplighters. Lamplighters has some really great audio books and those stories are from written 100, 150 years ago and some of these books are lost and so Lamplighters found them. You can find them in print or you can get them on audio and we love listening to those the kids, and there's I I mean incredible stories of faith. Really cool stories actually, and a lot of them are non-fictional yeah like, but we, we just never hear about these things.

Ben: 43:50

So, um, lamplighter is a great resource, and now that they're older we will listen to brant hansen yes, um but he's fun and he's funny my kids are actually enjoying him, so, yeah, that's really fun, even the youngest he's 10.

Liz: 44:02

He's listening and he's getting it, so I just feel like that helps. Yeah, it helps the time pass. It does it helps. It really does, yeah, it helps with boredom.

Ben: 44:10

So just a few strategies. When it comes to budget, right, we understand that travel can be expensive. So it's expensive, especially for larger families, yes, it is. So there's some things you can do to kind of help that right. So we just talked about a few tips on like actually being in the car, what to do and how to make that go easier, but like strategies for actually budgeting. One of the things that we like to do is we like to plan trips with other families, because that starts to open up your housing to the Airbnb kind of realm where you can find actually pretty decent deals for a bunch of people packed into one place.

Ben: 44:48

So a lot of times people get the idea to rent their homes and we just stayed in one recently in Washington DC. We had two extra families with us when we went and we were able to find a pretty good price. Like it would have been way, way better when compared to hotels oh, if we had stayed at.

Liz: 45:06

Oh, if we had stayed at a hotel. It was going to be astronomical for our family, unbelievably.

Ben: 45:11

But because we had you know how many people was a lot of people. 12 16, 16 because we had 16 people we were able to find uh half of them are our family, but yeah, that's true, eight of them were from us uh, but you know that's true, eight of them are from us, but yeah, so we're able to unlock, kind of like a different price point, because we say so obviously you got to find people that you enjoy to travel with, which we do.

Liz: 45:31

We do. We have that, yeah, and we love that. We will get a hotel, but for our family in this size, we can't get one room, we have to get two rooms. So for us to avoid a hotel is wise, but we do Airbnbs all the time, or Vrbo. We find all kinds of great deals, yeah, especially in the off-season.

Ben: 45:49

That's another thing, the advantage of off-season travel you really find some cool stuff. So even here near the coast where we live, there's some times where we go find a place that's on the beach and because it's off-season it's like half price, and so that's really great because we actually enjoy's on the beach and because it's off season, it's like half price, and so that's really great because we actually enjoy going to the beach during the off season. We like kind of a little bit of the cooler months, it's just fun.

Liz: 46:10

July is so hot.

Ben: 46:12

Yeah, it's very hot, but so that's another thing too is like being able to look at the off season stuff. Try to plan around that. And then another quick tip like this shouldn't come as any surprise but if you can, meal plan and just avoid spending all your money traveling at restaurants, that's crazy right. Especially when you have bigger families, you can do the bulk stuff you go through a. Costco if you're nearby.

Liz: 46:34

We just did this in DC.

Ben: 46:35

We were able to go load up on all this stuff and then cook for 16 people, and then you might even have some leftovers, right yeah, breakfast and dinner, and we did lunch kind of out and about, but we did breakfast and dinner.

Liz: 46:48

We packed our lunches, yeah.

Ben: 46:50

So it's just easier to Sorry. It's better, I think, to spend your money on the actual places you want to go and see and not just all on the food.

Liz: 47:00

Absolutely, and it's budget friendly because the amount of money that you would spend eating at home is just what you're going to spend when you're out. I love how always they say basically, when I travel with my family, it's just I am eating in a different location, what I usually eat, or I'm in a different location arguing with my family. That just changes the scenery. But you know what, when we were traveling with other families I was just remembering over the summer we had five families. We rented a larger house. I mean, there's homes out there that will sleep 25 to 30 people comfortably.

Liz: 47:35

Everybody had a bed, their own bedrooms, most of the bedrooms had their own restrooms, and it's beautiful. We had a game room and a hot tub and there's a pool, two pools. I mean it was unbelievable. And the price point per family was very inexpensive, right, but when we do that, when we do those kind of things, every family is taking a different meal and is responsible for it. Yeah so it's not like we all just go and split up the cost of all the groceries.

Liz: 48:00

Right split up the cost of all the groceries. You can do it that way, or the families bring their meal and that's what they're cooking for that night. So it's kind of like more of a family reunion type thing.

Ben: 48:09

but that's very budget friendly.

Liz: 48:10

And it has worked many times for us. I mean, we travel a lot. The other thing that I'm thinking is in regards to traveling, is that, because you are an entrepreneur, I'm an entrepreneur we can travel. We literally can travel, and because we homeschool, we can pick our kids up.

Ben: 48:25

Right.

Liz: 48:26

They can do their schooling Field trip, field trip, and they're learning so much Right.

Liz: 48:31

They're learning geography, they're learning all about different cultures you know because they're in a different state and you know all the different things different foods and going into museums and things like that. And so, because we are flexible, we don't have to be stationed just to where we live, to an office. We have had that freedom and I know some people have looked on the outside, looking in and have even made comments to us that gosh, you guys are always traveling. And I'm like, yes, we are, isn't it great? Right, you know? But they were saying it in more of a negative way and I'm like no, it's positive because it gives the adventure and the experience and also, too, the kids are learning so many things along the way, and so are we.

Ben: 49:15

Yeah, and I was just thinking of even our DC trip recently. We were at Williamsburg and the kids did a little research and they were like finding out what to do there, and so they were engaged in the excitement and the buildup.

Liz: 49:28

Yorktown, jamestown. Yeah, so we have some history buffs that are in our family.

Ben: 49:33

And so that really gives them a chance to shine because then they can go research and tell us about what's happening. So I really love that piece. Like being able to connect them into the planning is fun.

Liz: 49:42

Yes, it's really fun. Yes, now they love to research amusement parks.

Ben: 49:45

Yeah, yeah, so well, that's that. I feel like that's the next practical.

Liz: 49:49

I know exactly where you're going.

Ben: 49:51

Yes, there's what we call it the flexible traveler, Just the managing of expectations and attitudes. This is another piece of like the practical tips.

Liz: 50:03

But piece of like the practical tips but when you're with a large family, our plans change kind of frequently, right? Just because? Imagine that Blessed are the flexible. That's what I tell our kids. Blessed are the flexible.

Ben: 50:10

For they will inherit dinner. No, but like there's some times that we start out thinking we're going to do this and then we change our minds or maybe we're not sure we're going to do it.

Liz: 50:20

Or we get there and it's closed, or something has happened, or a thunderstorm came, and now we can't do this. It's not. I'm sorry, you know, we're just unable to do this.

Ben: 50:30

So keeping it flexible, keeping like the concept of a happy heart and just you know, on a whim things can change and I think that is helpful to exercise.

Liz: 50:38

Like when we've been skiing and it's been raining, yeah, and you just got to kind of enjoy it and you just got to find other things to do, right.

Ben: 50:45

So, yeah, that's important Like, and that gives us, when we do travel and we do hit these experiences, that gives us time to like, really help our kids see that, hey, sometimes you don't get what you want, right, but we still can have a good time in it.

Liz: 51:00

That's right. Yeah, that's right, and we really try to make sure that, when we're traveling, you know that we talk about having a happy heart. Yes, super important, it is a super choice to have a happy heart or not.

Ben: 51:10

Yeah, and one of the other things that I find like super fun is being able to do family devotions in new places. Oh yeah, that's right. Really cool to connect what the Lord is doing in your family in different places and like it's just a unique experience, Like sometimes we'll be able to go and like, have a little time in a mountain home, right and overlooking the mountains, and it's just, yeah, it's just like a different beauty, a different way to connect with the Lord you know, through his creation.

Ben: 51:38

So that's fun. To me too, I feel like that's another kind of like practical tip of just being able to connect the Lord in your actual travel is fun, it is rewarding.

Liz: 51:48

It is rewarding and it's fun to worship together, you know, and and see the beauty. You know, I'm just thinking when we've gone to mountain homes and you're just looking at the beauty and we just have some time of worship and everybody. You know, we have our Bible and we're praying and it's just something so special. Now I like to get up early in the morning with my Bible and my coffee and have my quiet time and let the kids sleep and you'll get up too.

Liz: 52:10

But then when we bring them into that, like it's just, it's something so beautiful, it's like these are the moments that in my little heart I'm taking a snapshot you know, with a camera and just wanting to keep that there, because they're going to be married one day and they're going to leave the nest and they're going off, and they're going to go off and do their own adventures, and so I'm just glad that we get those moments.

Ben: 52:31

One more thing that I think we forgot to mention one of the budget strategies.

Liz: 52:35

Oh, we're going back to budget. Yeah, sorry, going back real quick. Ben's talking about the budget.

Ben: 52:39

One of the things is actually being able to use points for travel.

Liz: 52:43

Oh, yes, this is important.

Ben: 52:44

We totally missed that, so we just were able to go overseas on points. Yep. All of our points were used for getting there For flights and hotel.

Liz: 52:56

That's right. Yeah, a couple of hotels too.

Ben: 53:00

And so because we have our own and our rental car rentals Because we have our own businesses. We know it's smart to use credit cards to be able to make purchases, because you don't want your debit information always out there. Right If someone were to come across your debit information, it's a lot harder to reclaim that you know the money that could be lost. Mercy than your stolen card, but credit card companies.

Liz: 53:17

They put a stop to it.

Ben: 53:23

Oh yeah, Well, and also too, because we have businesses, you know, so that we could use those points and we're not advocating that you go into debt to pay for your family travel.

Liz: 53:26

No, don't do that, please don't do that.

Ben: 53:28

But if you already, have something that you know is reoccurring, or you know it comes out every month and you're able to pay it off every month and you can manage that great, because you can get a lot of rewards out of that.

Liz: 53:39

And we have yeah, we have yeah and we were able to reap the benefits of that.

Ben: 53:42

So that's another way to kind of have a budget strategy for some of the travel that you might want to do.

Liz: 53:48

I'm glad you put that in there. Everybody needs to hear that.

Ben: 53:50

Yeah.

Liz: 53:51

So anything else before we wrap this up?

Ben: 53:53

I think we went over it. It's really fun. I love this. I enjoy that we get to travel together.

Liz: 53:58

I enjoy it, and especially when we have the traveling season upon us and it's coming up pretty quickly.

Ben: 54:03

It is.

Liz: 54:03

I know many people are making yeah we already have one planned and we're going to be heading out west for a whole month.

Ben: 54:09

I'm really excited.

Liz: 54:10

Whole month. So follow us on the socials. Our one bless mess on Instagram and Facebook, because we'll probably be posting some of our adventures there. But as we're getting into the travel season and schools ending and all those kind of things, we know a lot of you are thinking about this and we would just want to encourage you to make it a priority in your family. Your kids are going to love it and you're going to love it too.

Ben: 54:31

And they'll remember it.

Liz: 54:31

And they'll remember it. That's right. So thanks for being a part of our One Blessed Mess today, and don't forget to subscribe and share with a friend who needs the encouragement I don't know how you're listening to this.

Ben: 54:48

I don't know whether it's on a podcast or if you're watching YouTube. I mean, what, is it Applecast or?

Liz: 54:51

something like that. Yeah, Spotify, Spotify, Apple Music Wherever you may be listening to it. Heart, subscribe, like, share all the things that we really do, appreciate that and helps us to get our podcast out there. But also follow us, like I said, on Instagram and Facebook. We have our our one blessed mess uh pages and we have our channel set up. But until next time, uh, we would love to say, embrace your beautiful mess, because if our mess can be blessed, what Ben?

Ben: 55:13

Then so can yours.

Liz: 55:15

That's right, so can yours.