Liz: 0:12

Welcome to our one blessed mess. This has been a Liz, and we are here sharing our story of raising six kids that we had in eight years, managing our entrepreneurial home with two businesses, homeschooling and currently navigating with four almost five teenagers. If you've been following us, you know we've got a fifth one coming, plus seven chickens, two dogs and drum roll please, two goats. We just got two goats and that is just, honestly, to just make me crazy, I think that's what's really going on, my diabolical plan.

Liz: 0:45

Yeah, your diabolical plan. Today, as I was helping these goats and had everything all over me, I was like I don't know if I'm meant to be a farmer's wife. I mean, this is not what I knew when I signed the contract, when we were getting married it was in the fine print did.

Ben: 1:05

I expect.

Liz: 1:06

I didn't know. Ben told me when we were dating that he did not like chickens. His parents had chickens and he was like, oh, they're nasty, I'll never have chickens. Well, he didn't tell me the truth. It was in his heart of hearts. Somewhere in there he had a secret.

Ben: 1:19

Maybe I didn't know, maybe it was something I found out about myself.

Liz: 1:22

Oh Lord, have mercy, Ms Agnes. What other self-discovery things are we doing?

Ben: 1:26

I didn't realize that I needed two boats in life.

Liz: 1:28

Oh, we do have two boats, and now we've got two that practically make one working boat, maybe Right right, I don't even know if both of them work. An itty-bitty boat and then a big, big giant boat. In fact, one of the times that we were pulling that boat, somebody said that's a big party boat. Yeah, party barge. That's what they call it a party barge, yeah, okay. So what is today's conversation topic about? Ben?

Ben: 1:51

Today we're going to be talking about eight tips for newlyweds. Eight tips, and we want to just jump right in with tip number one.

Liz: 1:58

Are you ready for this? Yes, let's hear it.

Ben: 2:00

Tip number one out of our eight tips is that there are way more than eight tips. There's way more.

Liz: 2:12

So anyone who says otherwise is lying.

Ben: 2:14

There's not some secret magical things. There really isn't because, let's be honest, like each relationship is different yeah, and it's dynamic. In fact, I would think that a marriage relationship is the most dynamic relationship you have on earth absolutely maybe even I know I don't want to sound sacrilegious but maybe even more dynamic than your relationship with god because embodied yeah, you're embodied with this person.

Liz: 2:32

Yeah, well, the lord's love is. It happens through relationships.

Ben: 2:36

The lord's love is greater and it's more more perfect yeah perfect and it's definitely more uh of the focus on this side of heaven, but as it relates to the dynamisy of a marriage relationship. I mean it's like second to none right, right, I agree. There's so many twists and turns. There's so many.

Liz: 2:56

Yeah.

Ben: 2:57

Mysteries.

Liz: 2:58

Oh, the mystery I mean it's like Am I mysterious?

Ben: 3:02

Every day, every day.

Liz: 3:04

You better be nice. I don't know Ben you need to. I don't know, I don't know what you're going to say, what you're going to do. Oh, here we go. Oh boy, wait, be nice.

Ben: 3:09

I think I'm digging myself a hole already.

Liz: 3:10

Yeah, okay, move on, move on, move on.

Ben: 3:12

But okay. So the point is, there's no magic formula.

Liz: 3:17

Right.

Ben: 3:18

There's unique and common struggles in each relationship right Right. Absolutely. We have struggles that most relationships have, but we also have unique relationships. I'm sorry.

Liz: 3:28

Unique struggles. I was like we do have a unique relationship. We got a bunch of goats and chickens.

Ben: 3:33

Oh man, goodness gracious, we're raising a bunch of kids, so the point is, though, is there's just such a uniqueness about it, right, and we ended up what? We ended up texting a bunch of our friends. We were like, hey, give us your number one.

Liz: 3:46

Give us your number one. Give us your number one tip for newlyweds Give us your number one tip. And what was pouring in first of all was very funny. I mean we laughed our heads off and it was funny because Ben and I were in separate areas and, as the texts were rolling in, he and I would laugh on cue at the same time a couple of times, so it was really fun.

Ben: 4:02

It was fun.

Liz: 4:04

But what we're discovering is, everybody has a different number, one us everybody has a different number, one Everybody had a different number one. It was very, very interesting to learn.

Ben: 4:10

It was yeah, it was just unique, and so that's what we came away with. We got some really great tips, but I think what Liz and I came away with is, like everybody's number one is going to be slightly different.

Liz: 4:22

That relationship is slightly different than the next one. So our number one is there is no number one. There is no number one, they're all number one.

Ben: 4:29

But in order to have an episode we've got to narrow down to eight. So we did that. We're not going to do a rug pull on you guys.

Liz: 4:36

We do have eight.

Ben: 4:38

So what do you think we should do? Should we just jump right in?

Liz: 4:40

I think we should jump right in. I think it would be pretty good. We do have a lot of stories and we're trying to figure out where we're going to insert all of them, because there's like way too many I know. So you guys are really in like just get a cup of coffee, or if you're driving.

Ben: 4:56

Maybe a bag of popcorn. Bag of popcorn, yeah, something that might be very entertaining.

Liz: 5:00

So maybe we should start out with like when, just our little bit of our journey. When we first got engaged, I was living in another city and you were still in college. And so you know, here was something that I know I had been anticipating for years to finally be a bride. I mean it was cute because the weekend that you proposed to me I was visiting because a friend of mine from high school my best friend from high school was getting married.

Liz: 5:26

And so you proposed to me the night before she got married and then we went to the wedding and we're engaged and it was so exciting. And then the next day I was flying back home and here we are at the airport. And how many times I had flown back and forth or drove, or you left, or however that went down, and I would always be the one crying. You'd be like it's going to be okay, we'll see each other in X amount of weeks, or a couple months or whatever, but this time this time I was bawling my eyes out.

Ben: 5:55

He was at the airport bawling and you were excited. What the heck is up with that? I?

Liz: 5:58

had already gone to the grocery store. I had bought the Bride magazine. You were like I can't wait to get back, I'm going to of my gift mixes planning.

Ben: 6:07

Like I do enjoy planning, yeah, and I'm strategic. I love that. Might not be my highest. Well, but remember you're saving that for another time.

Liz: 6:15

You are an artist, so you had your say in a lot of what was going on. But but like I remember that and thinking like dude, he's so emotional, I'm like it's finally happening, I'm getting married, you know, and you're like your heart was was like this is my wife, like this is the woman that I'm gonna spend the rest of my life with you, know, and so um don't go away yeah, and we had a full year of engagement in two different cities and that was really hard.

Ben: 6:37

I don't suggest doing that yeah that's not in our tips but that was very, very difficult that's a freebie.

Liz: 6:42

that was very difficult because, like you know, we were hardly even in our dating relationship in the same city, so we weren't having those embodied experiences. All of our communication was on cell phones.

Ben: 6:53

I don't even think we had text messages.

Liz: 6:54

We had email.

Ben: 6:55

We didn't have video call back then.

Liz: 6:56

No, we didn't have video call. There was no text messages, because we're back in the dinosaur ages.

Ben: 7:01

Well, there's text messages. But it was no, it was IM. Yeah.

Liz: 7:05

Like AOL or something.

Ben: 7:10

But I well or something.

Liz: 7:10

But I was on. I was on a night shift and you were on a day shift and in college. So there was like it was hard to connect and, uh, you know I would be alive and spry at like 6.00 AM and you're like, oh my gosh you're so tired.

Liz: 7:20

You're waking up. In case you guys didn't know, ben loves sleep, so anyway, um, but, but you know we started this journey and it was hard because, having a counseling session, we had to, like, try to find resources you know all these kind of things to work together, and so I kind of wish we had this, you know, if I were to go back to being, you know, engaged and a newlywed first couple years of marriage, like, some of these things that we're going to share are very good and there are things that we've learned along the way.

Liz: 7:48

Yeah, maybe even eye opening, Maybe eye-opening and so, anyway, you want to jump in, or do we want to talk about right after we got married and what we experienced? Let's jump in, let's go to the first one and we'll leave in the stories later.

Ben: 7:58

So okay. So tip number one. This is a little bit self-serving, because we talked about this in a previous episode, episode yeah. But we feel like the number one topic was embrace servitarian marriage, and that's just a fancy made up word that we came up with for basically saying don't be selfish, serve your spouse Right. That's tip number one.

Liz: 8:20

Put the other one first. Yeah, and I know a lot of people are like, oh well, it's 50-50, but it's really not.

Ben: 8:25

It's 100-100. Yeah.

Liz: 8:27

It really is.

Ben: 8:28

Yeah.

Liz: 8:28

And we talk about that in episode. We do, yeah, so that's episode. I believe it's episode eight Yep.

Ben: 8:38

So, and again, just to dive in a little bit on that right the Bible talks about Well, there's kind of two different views that people get from the Bible. Just say it that way there's a complementarian view and also an egalitarian view, and so we feel like when husbands take on the egalitarian viewpoint, and when wives take on the complementarian viewpoint, then there's really no need to argue about which viewpoint is better, because it boils down to kind of the same concept which is I'm going to serve the other person.

Liz: 9:03

Yeah, I'm going to serve, and that's scriptural. Yeah, yeah, serving, it's biblical.

Ben: 9:07

Exactly so you can just kind of do a little bit of research on your own. In fact, we even have a little bit of a guide that takes you through all those scriptures and just shows you kind of how we came to this conclusion where we feel like it is biblical to focus on the serving aspect. Yes, you can wade through the nuance of each scripture reference, how that backs up the different views, but at the end of the day, if you just focus on serving your spouse, then you'll be a lot happier.

Liz: 9:33

You will be a lot happier because what we have found is that when I serve you, it's like it awakens love in you to serve me Right. And it's across.

Ben: 9:43

What do we call that? You know what we call that. We mentioned it on the previous episode, I don't know. Feedback cycle.

Liz: 9:50

Oh, feedback cycle, I don't know, you guys this is what it's like being married to Ben all the time. I'm like teaching moment. There's a test, it's an exam. I think I just failed. Did I pass?

Ben: 10:00

That's all right. I don't even know.

Liz: 10:01

There'll be more pop quizzes along the way, 50 years ahead of us. Okay.

Ben: 10:06

That's true.

Liz: 10:06

So, and and two, you know when we were talking about this. This is whether you've been married for eight days or 80 years Like it doesn't.

Ben: 10:13

it doesn't matter. So yeah the newlywed things is just kind of a little bit of a a guys, I mean it really. This stuff is super helpful either way, so tip number. That was our takeaway for number one.

Liz: 10:27

Yes For number one. Yeah, easy peasy. And I know we have something here written about sacred marriage. Yeah, and Gary Thomas in Sacred Marriage asks what if God designed marriage?

Ben: 10:41

to make us holy more than to make us happy. That's a good thought to ponder.

Liz: 10:45

We talk about this as a family not just us, but like with extended family, like sisters and brother-in-laws, and we say marriage is where you die. Then you have kids, okay.

Ben: 10:55

I like to say it this way, which I don't know who came up with this, but I think it's kind of nice. Marriage is God's original discipleship program and evangelism program, because you know you're making disciples if you stay together.

Liz: 11:11

So the old fashioned way Fruitful and multiply. That's right. Fruitful and multiply, fruitful and multiply. But really.

Ben: 11:15

I mean as far as like learning how to love one another by laying down your life. I mean that is, I think, textbook definition of marriage.

Liz: 11:23

Yeah, it is A really successful marriage. Well, and that's like part of a tune up for marriage. Let's remember that, yeah, we're getting tuned up right now.

Ben: 11:30

Yeah, serve me, serve you, it's going to be good Servitarian, all right Servitarian. What's number two? Ben Tip? Number two this one is fun.

Liz: 11:38

Yes, I know what is it.

Ben: 11:40

It's also challenging, yes, it is. Number two is fight fair. We know because we've been married 20 years. But you really don't have to be married very long at all to know that conflict is just inevitable.

Liz: 11:58

It's inevitable. You're going to hit conflict. It's going to happen.

Ben: 12:01

The most peaceable, loving people I know are still going to have conflict.

Liz: 12:05

Yeah, because you're human beings, You're not human doings, you're also selfish human beings. Yes, I hate to break it to everybody, but we're pretty selfish.

Ben: 12:12

The things that we contextualize have to do with the body that we live in, so everything that we experience is relatable to us. We have to think outside of ourselves and so, anyways, all that to say, fighting fair, knowing kind of the rules, right. Like knowing how to say hey, we need to stay in our boundaries.

Liz: 12:33

Well, and I mean there's a lot in that Like I mean we can really impact this. This should probably be an episode, but like we do not bring up the D word.

Ben: 12:41

Yeah, that's true.

Liz: 12:42

We do not bring up that word. That is not even in our mindset, say it.

Ben: 12:46

You guys have to figure out what the D word is. I, our mindset. I won't even say it. You guys have to figure out what the D word is. I'll give you a hint it's the opposite of being married. Wow, go ponder on that.

Liz: 12:54

Hopefully you passed that quiz that was a quiz, that's right.

Ben: 12:57

I learned that one.

Liz: 12:58

Okay, but we don't even bring that up. We decided early on in our marriage like we're just not going to bring that up, we're not going to even play around with that. We're not going to even entertain that because you got to catch the foxes. If you don't catch those foxes, those little thoughts, they can grow and grow and grow and grow in your vine, in your garden of your marriage. And so you've got to get that. You got to capture those, you got it.

Ben: 13:20

And I think to stay angry or bitter right Like that just poisons a relationship Right, and so we've got to be careful with how we engage in conflict because really that's the person you're supposed to be closest to, and if you're doing damage to that person, it's going to be extremely difficult to come back around. So it's that almost crazy cycle.

Liz: 13:44

Right.

Ben: 13:45

Where do we hear that from?

Liz: 13:46

The whole concept of the crazy cycle. Oh, love and respect. Yeah, and that is. We love him actually. He's really really great. I always say his name weird.

Ben: 13:53

Emerson.

Liz: 13:55

Eggrich, I always say it weird, we just call him Emerson Eggrich?

Ben: 13:59

I don't know, I think that's how you say it. We all say Emerson. We just say Emerson. We got a lot more out of the DVD series. Yeah, we did that DVD. I dated myself.

Liz: 14:13

Early on when we were newly married. Well, let me back up. Your dad gave us a dupul bag of things that would be useful on our honeymoon, and it was super awkward. I love your dad, but it was like it was a goodie bag. When you showed it to me when we were on our honeymoon, I was like you brought that and he's like there was books and other things and I was like and I know I'm bringing it up right now- but we didn't plan on bringing that up.

Ben: 14:43

I'm sorry kind of caught me anyway in there was this book now, first of all, on your honeymoon.

Liz: 14:49

If you're reading a book cool, that's true honeymoon, if you're reading a book cool that's true, we weren't really reading a book yeah, we, we were didn't have a whole lot.

Ben: 14:54

Yeah, yeah, we, you know we were trying to do other things.

Liz: 14:57

We were trying to figure that out well, we were trying to recuperate because it had been like full steam ahead, because when I came back into town when we were getting married, I mean, it was like late nights, early mornings, late night, you know, getting ready for a wedding because I was trying to plan in another city states away. So anyway, but he in love and respect by Emerson, so great because he talks about.

Liz: 15:15

you know how the women have pink earphones and a pink megaphone and you have blue earphones, or I call them earmuffs, but headset and then a blue megaphone megaphone and you're only you can only hear blue and I can only hear pink. And so we're like we're crisscrossing and I want love and you want respect. And when I was reading this book, when we finally tried to start reading it, I was like you would say to me I don't feel like you respect me and I'm like how do you know I'm not respecting you. And then I would say well, I don't feel love. And you're like how are you not feeling love?

Ben: 15:42

It's almost like we can't switch the it's really hard. I mean you perceive love the way that you perceive love, Right?

Liz: 15:52

So we just needed to learn how to communicate it, and so, when we watched the DVDs, we did it with a small group that you and I created of young marrieds. And we watched it together in our small group and we finally got it and I finally realized, oh, and we learned about the crazy cycle. And you can get into a crazy cycle, you know, and you start fighting and it's like you know, oh, if you're not careful, somebody's got to be, I would say, big enough to jump off of it, and sometimes it's me, and sometimes it's you, but what does that look like when you jump off of it?

Liz: 16:22

Oh, stopping. For me it's keeping my mouth shut.

Ben: 16:24

Maybe even asking forgiveness right.

Liz: 16:34

Well, sometimes I do that Sometimes. I don't If I just keep my mouth shut until yeah, well, and I want to make sure that my heart is pure when I come to you and ask for forgiveness and vice versa. I know that. But when we're having conflict, like we know we're going to resolve it and we in our marriage in 20 years we really rarely have gone to bed angry at each other Like there's been only a few times that it's carried over into a day or two days.

Liz: 16:49

I think I can maybe think of one or two arguments in 20 years and I'm not trying to like toot our horn and say like we're doing it better. It's because we, oh we, don't fight at night, Like if it's late, and you're tired, Right right, okay, first of all, ben really loves his sleep, so if he's tired and we're starting, it is going to be crazy, crazy, crazy. So I've had to learn that if there's something that I really do want to bring up, I need to make sure he's been rested, fed and happy.

Ben: 17:18

Well, there is a scripture reference that talks about not letting the sun go down on your anger.

Liz: 17:23

It's Ephesians 4.26,.

Ben: 17:24

be angry and do not sin. Do not let the sun go down on your anger. And you know it's not necessarily a carte blanche to just go be angry all the time. That's not what this verse is about. It's about actually resolving and not leading to sin, and really it's taking out that bitter root that could form.

Liz: 17:43

Yes, and so when we go to bed at night, we've even said I know that we have tension right now, but it's not a good time to talk about it. But I love you and we'll resolve it tomorrow.

Ben: 17:53

Yep.

Liz: 17:54

You know, and then we both go to sleep. Yeah, so you know, take that bit of advice if that's helpful to you and use it, because what we have noticed, if we didn't do that, and we're at a stalemate and we're on the crazy cycle and not one of us is willing to come off of the crazy cycle first it can get really not good and there is like walls big walls between us.

Ben: 18:22

Right, you know, yeah, jumping off is important. You got to be willing to jump off. Well, someone has to be the first person to do it. You do, yeah, and it's really sacrificially, I mean. That's kind of what it comes down to is like going and being low, choosing to you know serve that other person by maybe even saying you're sorry first. Or you know serve that other person by maybe even saying you're sorry first, or you know doing an act of love or something different to kind of get off that same behavior.

Liz: 18:41

Absolutely, absolutely.

Ben: 18:43

All right.

Liz: 18:43

Do you want to move on? I think we should.

Ben: 18:46

Okay, number three Number three I think it's your turn, right.

Liz: 18:48

You want me to share. Okay, number three is one of my favorites Never stop dating. N-s-d. Never stop dating.

Ben: 18:56

Oh, I like it. Yeah, I like it.

Liz: 18:58

Talk to me about that, Ben. What does it mean?

Ben: 19:04

Basically, it's doing the first things you did in the relationship. I mean, a relationship is built based on making it special, prioritizing time with that other person.

Liz: 19:26

So if you just stop cold turkey when you get married, thinking that, like oh, now I've captured this woman, I don't have to do anything.

Ben: 19:31

I'm speaking from back to the capturing of your heart.

Liz: 19:35

Uh-huh. That can lead to some bad, some bad things, and so you can be in a place where it can get really icky.

Ben: 19:43

Yeah.

Liz: 19:44

Yeah, and we've had that in our marriage actually For sure. We were in a place one time where love was growing cold.

Ben: 19:50

Yeah.

Liz: 19:51

And this was probably year four, five, six, I don't remember. Somewhere in there growing cold, and this was probably year four, five, six, I don't remember, somewhere in there.

Ben: 19:59

We had some kids and I was getting attention from another man in our life. He was a friend of the family and he didn't and it wasn't mischievous or anything.

Liz: 20:03

No, there was nothing but my heart was desiring conversation and you were busy doing the things that you thought were right to do, but we were not getting dates, we weren't getting synchronized, we weren't even getting sleep?

Ben: 20:17

No, well, you were getting sleep.

Liz: 20:20

Let's be clear on that.

Ben: 20:22

Nothing goes between me and sleep. Oh my gosh.

Liz: 20:25

So, sad. It's okay. What was that selfish thing that?

Ben: 20:29

we were talking about. It's okay, it's a work in progress.

Liz: 20:31

It's all right, it's all right, it's all right. I'm over it. Like those years I wasn't. I was like I would be late up at night with a kid looking over at you and like hating you literally hating you. I'm like, how can you sleep? I've been up three nights straight with throwing up kids, you know, but you could sleep through it.

Ben: 20:48

I could, and you're just, it's a gift. We'll say it's a gift.

Liz: 20:50

Yeah, and then, even when you would wake up, you're like no use. It's like oh my God, just go back to bed. You are. Anyway, it's okay. He's great when he's up and he's had a sleep, he is on it when I got my sleep.

Ben: 21:02

I'm great, you are great, it is true. I'm terrible, it is, it's true.

Liz: 21:06

Okay, so never stop dating. I know we're getting back to the thing, but in the midst of that, what it was was that you know that part of our relationship was dying on the vine and we needed to recultivate that again. We needed to put money towards that. We needed to put it as our, put us back into the in the priority, and you know it takes as a married couple. It takes a while to kind of figure that out, especially as you're adding kids, because Because it seems like the immediate is always the children.

Ben: 21:35

Or the jobs taking off right, Right We've seen it so many times where a man gets the promotion or maybe becomes an entrepreneur. Right and there's just so much more demand for that person's attention. And it's like well, I've got to do this because things are becoming successful and it's like well, you also got to keep in mind that your marriage has to be successful, and the only way to have a successful marriage, I think, is to prioritize that other person which includes time and it does and knowing the other's love language. Yes.

Liz: 22:08

You know there's plenty of free test out there that you can take and figure that out and then understanding how your spouse receives love and then understanding how they give love. And I think, and it's very different because how you show love isn't always the way that I receive love, and it's only been recently that you've been a student and this isn't like.

Ben: 22:29

this isn't putting you down or anything yeah.

Liz: 22:31

Compliment school. He's been in compliments.

Ben: 22:34

I've been in compliment school for 20 years and right now I would say I have a C plus. I was basically a D minus or an F, and so I'm getting better.

Liz: 22:44

It's just taken a long, long time. What it is is you think it, but then you never say it.

Ben: 22:47

It's true, I kind of stay in my head, which is also problematic in a lot of different ways. But, yeah, it's got to come out for it to count, and so it's not because I didn't even know your thoughts.

Liz: 23:00

So when you tell me your thoughts, verbalize it. Yeah, you got to verbalize it, and also with the kids in little years, probably the number one love language that I needed was acts of service.

Ben: 23:13

Yes, because if you're helping me with the dishes, if you're helping me with bathing, that's important. It changed for you right.

Liz: 23:16

It did change. Would you say it changed? It has changed. Okay, I mean, I still do appreciate acts of service, but it isn't filling my love cup as much as other things are now.

Ben: 23:23

Right.

Liz: 23:23

And what's interesting is it was different before we got married and had kids.

Ben: 23:29

Relationships are dynamic and there's not a magic formula, oh my gosh Crazy. I think I am, did I get?

Liz: 23:35

an A you do Thank you.

Ben: 23:37

You brought it all the way back. I brought it all the way back to an A.

Liz: 23:40

But I just want to go back real quick to the point of the dates and how my heart was being filled with the thoughts of someone else. And I think sometimes for women it maybe isn't even a physical person. It could be actually in a book, it could be in a movie, and so there's always that comparison, because what was happening was I was comparing you you know, because our, our love was my love. Club was very empty.

Ben: 24:05

Right.

Liz: 24:06

And and I was comparing you to what was around me in this dynamic conversation. And you know it wasn't reciprocated, whatever. It was only in my head. And it wasn't a year later until I realized it and confessed and said oh my gosh, I think I had this and you're like, okay, you know, and we dealt with it, but but it, you know, it's so important. As wives, I think that we guard our hearts and we recognize that.

Liz: 24:25

And then also vocalizing because I remember, when I started getting the understanding that I need to tell you and I'm going to share this real quick because I think this is super important when I remembered oh my gosh no offense, I'm not saying you're dumb, this isn't- what I'm saying.

Ben: 24:41

I'm trying to find a way. I don't do good on sleep. I'm dumb.

Liz: 24:45

I'm trying to say this with, like, I'm trying to lift you up. Okay, you're not thinking like I'm thinking, right.

Ben: 24:52

Like a woman.

Liz: 24:53

Yes, so when I need my hand to be held.

Ben: 24:56

That's fair.

Liz: 25:02

When I need my hand to be held. I can remember driving around in our minivan and kids in the back and being upset with you because you're not holding my hand. Well, you're not even thinking about holding my hand. You're probably thinking about some football game, I mean, I don't know. Or you're like I got to get an oil change, or you're like I got to keep my kids alive.

Liz: 25:15

I got to keep my kids I don't know what you're thinking, but I'm like thinking, gosh, I haven't been alone with you and, yes, we're in the car, but I guess this is kind of a date, and so I had to learn for me to say hey, babe, I need you to hold my hand, and when you reach over and you hold my hand, I'm not mad at you that you did it because I told you.

Liz: 25:34

You did it because you love me and you're serving me and you want to fill my needs.

Liz: 25:38

So I had to get that figured out and I've shared that with a lot of women. Like, hey, make your need known and say, hey, what I would say to you when it could be a couple of weeks that went by and money was tight and I was doing all the things to try to save up to be able to go out on dates and pair babysitter well, and I would say, hey, my love tank is low and that was an indication to you that you need to buy me flowers, you need to write me a note and you need to plan a date. Like, I need you to take that time, look me in the eyes and remind me why you love me, remind me why we are married. Remind me why we are married, remind me that you see me, because I'm covered in vomit and snot and all the things that kids put on me and you know I haven't bathed and it's like hard and I need to look forward to something of you romancing me, because you're the only one who can romance me, right.

Liz: 26:27

Yeah, that's what it is, and so when I say those things hey, my love cup is empty or hey, babe, my love cup is starting to wane I can't get mad at him that he didn't pick up on it and he's not thinking about it, and I can't think that my definition of being intimate and being romanced is the same as yours oh, here we go, we're going there because that's intense is this in the tips? It's not, but okay, let's go there yeah, it's well.

Ben: 26:49

I I mean, I think we're gonna get there actually okay, yeah, well, just just share as well. Yeah, so it's like we were connecting physically, but there wasn't that romance that you needed as a woman.

Liz: 26:59

And also.

Ben: 27:00

I needed to portray as a man. I just didn't realize it, right, right. And so, because things were tight on time, or Money, or money, or we had make it work so well, there's still creative ways that.

Liz: 27:13

I could have done better during those years, and so that's just a hindsight 2020 kind of thing right.

Ben: 27:21

I feel like now I'm figuring out how to prioritize. Not only have I been going to compliment school, but I've also been trying to go to dating school, So-.

Liz: 27:25

He's doing really good. You guys, I'm getting better? Hopefully not worse you are, you're doing great.

Ben: 27:29

Yeah, so it's just like learning how to figure out the needs of your spouse and moving forward with that and realizing that a lot of times just communicating- right, we were communicating more about it would have been better well, we were learning speaking of communicating, we could jump on the tip four yes, let's go which is please forgive like it's your job, because newsflash it, it is your job, it is your job. And we talk about this a little bit in episode six right. My right to offense, and do we have one biblically?

Ben: 28:03

Offense is kind of an epidemic in our cancel culture and just you know everything. She said, he said, he did, she did. I mean, it's just pointing the finger, is it is just human nature and it's everywhere. But what's divine is to forgive.

Liz: 28:20

That's right.

Ben: 28:21

And so Jesus forgives us. He laid down his life for us to provide a way for us to be redeemed to God, and so we believe that also includes one another, and we've got to be willing to be like him and to forgive. And it's not a feeling, it's literally a decision.

Liz: 28:37

It is a decision. Yeah, there's been times where it's tough. Oh, it's hard, Super hard, super hard, and one of us and the other one will choose to forgive.

Ben: 28:46

Yeah.

Liz: 28:46

And it goes against like we just know it's the right thing to do. I mean it's the same thing in our kids. Yeah, I mean it's the same thing in our kids. Yeah, I mean we're teaching them the power of forgiveness. Right and keeping short accounts.

Ben: 28:57

That's important too, because when your kids see that right, they model that behavior.

Liz: 29:01

Yep.

Ben: 29:02

So if you can show that you guys forgive one another even I mean not obviously to go have conflict in front of them, but to show the conflict resolution, I think in front of them is important and say, hey, mommy, daddy might have been arguing last night. You guys might have heard it. Or maybe we did on the way home from church, or maybe we were right in front of you, or we did it on the way to church.

Liz: 29:22

Hey, let's be real, let's be real. Our one blessed mess. Let's be real.

Ben: 29:25

But the point is is like bringing that back, not letting it just kind of be out in the air but say hey, listen, this happened. We've said we're sorry to one another.

Liz: 29:32

We're human.

Ben: 29:33

We've asked forgiveness. We're human. Modeling that forgiveness pattern and bringing it back to the Lord. I think is super important for kids to see that.

Liz: 29:42

Yeah, absolutely so.

Ben: 29:45

I mean, I think that's pretty much it on that topic.

Liz: 29:47

Yeah, I feel like that's good, and I just want to say that. What is that saying? The first one to say they're sorry wins.

Ben: 29:54

Yeah.

Liz: 29:55

Now, this is very true. So sometimes Ben will come and we'll be in an argument and he'll be like I'm sorry and I'm like I don't want don't even say it.

Ben: 30:07

Yet I am not ready?

Liz: 30:08

I am not ready. You want to be a little offended? I am upset with you and I would like to be angry for at least another five minutes or hours, depending, you know, and so you know, and I'm the, I am the personality that I need to make sure that I'm right, like you know in my heart. I'll say my sorry, but it may take time for me to process and come back and be like hey, so I need I need to really say my this you need a little more time, and that's okay.

Ben: 30:35

Yeah, it's okay to have a little time to process those emotions, but you've got to get back to that forgiveness that forgiveness piece.

Liz: 30:42

Yeah, and so yeah. Well, the Lord wants us to forgive one another?

Ben: 30:45

Oh for sure, yeah, something about 70 times seven or something like that.

Liz: 30:49

Yeah, I feel like there's something in the Bible about that. Yeah, yeah.

Ben: 30:54

Yeah, so anyways, let's jump to tip number five. What do we got for tip number five?

Liz: 30:59

Laugh together often. That's right Humor. What does it do? It diffuses tension. It does it really does.

Ben: 31:06

It does. This is something that we really enjoy together as a couple. Not everybody may be the funny guy or funny woman, and that's okay, but it's still awesome to laugh together as a couple.

Liz: 31:18

And we will even put on TV shows that are just the two of us and we will laugh our heads off together. There is um science out there about when you're laughing together and the connection that you feel.

Ben: 31:27

It's the same thing when you're dancing, oh yeah.

Liz: 31:29

Um, there's a connection that happens there, that embodied experience mutual mind.

Ben: 31:33

Ben, I'm pulling out your words. Something about endorphins maybe.

Liz: 31:40

Endorphins.

Ben: 31:40

Yeah, yeah, there's so much, but when?

Liz: 31:41

you're laughing together and keeping things lighthearted and those that choose to have kids or do have kids. There are so many funny things that happen and you just have to just laugh your way through it, because if you don't, you're not going to have a good time you might go crazy you might, and you don't want to be this person that has like a serious scowl on their face.

Liz: 31:55

No, you know, and so a lot of times when you and I are having an intense moment or I'm being intense maybe it's more me and you'll look at me and you'll be like, really, and you have this smile on your face and I'm like, don't do that, because you just have a way to diffuse it for me?

Ben: 32:12

Yeah, because you just have a way to diffuse it for me. Yeah, yeah, it's true. And vice versa, yeah, vice versa, yeah. You say some really funny one-liners, or maybe even you'll mispronounce a word, but it's like almost the perfect timing for it, and so there's been some really hilarious stories about that.

Liz: 32:26

I never, ever mispronounce my words.

Ben: 32:30

Should we even tell a story about mispronouncing words, which?

Liz: 32:31

Should we even tell a story?

Ben: 32:32

about mispronouncing words, which one I don't know.

Liz: 32:33

There's so many, there's way too many.

Ben: 32:35

Can you talk about the one?

Liz: 32:36

where you said it on stage. No, no, I can't. I was speaking and it was an intense little thing. No, you had to be there, like no, you had to be there.

Ben: 32:48

All right, all right.

Liz: 32:49

I mean We'll have to move on, because that's a pretty funny one it is.

Ben: 32:52

This is a family thing. Yeah, it wasn't anything bad but I mean anyway.

Liz: 32:56

So just talking about sharing laughter, the laughter of the righteous will be their joy and that's in Proverbs 10, 25.

Ben: 33:03

Yeah, and that's a loose translation. We get it, you know, but like that's, that's one of the Bible translations that we got that from. We like the, we like that translation, I, we like that translation. I have no idea how accurate it is, but it does kind of embody that you know, that joy goes down, makes the medicine go down.

Liz: 33:18

It does make the medicine go down, and when we share laughter, it creates shared memories. And so when we are laughing together, like you know, it's bonding us in our marriage. It's making us stronger.

Ben: 33:29

Yeah.

Liz: 33:30

And it's good. Like the Bible says, laughter does the heart good. You know it's good. Like the Bible says, laughter does the heart good. Yeah, you know it's good medicine. Yeah, and I'm just thinking, like even us doing this podcast we have it's made us think about all kinds of hilarious things that we've walked through or, you know, experienced with our kids or in our marriage, and it is hilarious, it is really hilarious, yeah, even looking back at it. So Good times, yeah, even looking back at it. So Good times, yeah, Good times.

Ben: 33:55

Good times, All right. So tip number six we're getting. We're getting through these pretty good. So tip number six, this one, is big Talk about money before it talks for you. So this one, this one's been a challenge for me personally. We grew up differently.

Liz: 34:13

We grew up. Way different we grew up differently we grew up.

Ben: 34:14

Way different we grew up different. Yeah, my background growing up was middle class, maybe even upper middle class.

Liz: 34:22

Right.

Ben: 34:23

And just had just so much different experience than you in your upbringing. I grew up poor, and so no money. Things that I needed or wanted even, were just readily available, you know and that created some expectations for me in the marriage that's a nice way of putting it Expectations.

Liz: 34:45

That's a nice way of putting it.

Ben: 34:46

They do all kinds of things, but for me, like learning how to talk to you about financial decisions has been, I think, something that's taken me a long time to learn, so I believe we're getting closer to the same page. I can't say that we always do the get on the same page, but mostly now I feel like we have done the work of figuring out how not to make the other person mad by purchasing things.

Liz: 35:13

Well, and what we know is financial stress is the number one cause of marital conflict.

Ben: 35:18

Yeah.

Liz: 35:19

And that is very, very true. And we, you know, in our experience and in other marriages that are around us, we see that you know, and, whether you know, somebody is the spender, somebody is the saver. Maybe call them Scrooge too, oh sure, but you know, you come from different backgrounds and you maybe you don't have the same beliefs as money.

Ben: 35:41

Yeah.

Liz: 35:42

You don't have. You don't even have the same beliefs of how to spend your money.

Ben: 35:46

Right.

Liz: 35:46

And I think that's important as a married couple is to get clarity on that. You know, like looking at a budget some people hate that word budget I happen to be one of those people but it's necessary in order to make the Varan clan function. And I didn't know that when we got married, I was going to be the one that would be in charge of paying all the bills.

Liz: 36:10

Now you're making money, but you have no idea what bills were paid you don't, you have to, you know, yeah, and so all that responsibility was on my shoulders for years and I was kind of resenting you in it, because we never really got down totally to the nitty-gritty. I mean, yes, there's financial peace, I know there's lots of things that are out there, but I took financial peace and even went to a conference and what did you do?

Ben: 36:33

I went to financial pieces. Maybe I never did financial peace. He didn't.

Liz: 36:40

And so yeah.

Ben: 36:41

Yeah, we had just a very different understanding about finances, about prioritizing them Right, and you were a little older when we got married too, so you had a little bit more life experience.

Liz: 36:50

And I was Higher credit score too.

Ben: 36:51

I was definitely yeah, a much higher credit score and I was a little bit more green behind the ears and just like didn't have all of the understanding and experience with money. So when we came into some money like I just didn't make the kind of, I guess, priorities that I needed to make.

Liz: 37:14

But then you did, we did and we kind of figured it out.

Ben: 37:16

We made a lot of mistakes and learned from those mistakes.

Liz: 37:18

About a decade ago you did. Maybe 15 years ago. We made a shift in our finances.

Ben: 37:24

Yeah, Shifts in our finances and we started prioritizing things and we really tried to do as much of the Dave Ramsey kind of stuff as we could.

Liz: 37:30

And there's other things out there. There are. Yeah, you don't have to just do this, right.

Ben: 37:35

It's important to talk about that.

Liz: 37:37

It's an important thing to talk about it and understand what the other prioritizes, and so something that for us that we've learned that we really love prioritizing and we put money towards it is traveling.

Ben: 37:48

Traveling.

Liz: 37:49

Yeah, and one of the reasons that I think we do that is because I watched my grandparents save and scrimp and save and scrimp, and they put all this money away so that when my grandfather retired they were going to get a little cabin or a little travel trailer, put it behind their vehicle and travel all over the country. Well, when he retired he had Alzheimer's and they were never able to do their dream. And so we I mean for me, I look at it, I go, we should live now, not just thinking we're going to live off in the future and so putting money towards that also. We're on the same page as far as giving goes.

Ben: 38:23

That's huge and we try to teach our kids about the five buckets of finance which are spending, tithing, saving, investing and giving.

Liz: 38:32

Giving.

Ben: 38:32

Yeah, and so each one of those is important and you have to have a plan for each one of those.

Liz: 38:36

Yes, you do.

Ben: 38:36

And so, again, you have to go back to your spouse, you have to communicate, you have to figure out what their priorities are. And then also, I think it makes sense to kind of objectively look at a third party, like a Dave Ramsey or just looking for someone who's a bit more of an authority on this. Yeah, because have different expectations.

Liz: 38:52

Absolutely.

Ben: 38:52

And you're going to go back to your childhood and think, well, what do my parents do, what did your parents do? And so I think there's just got to be a little bit of a third party objective view.

Liz: 39:02

Exactly.

Ben: 39:03

That can help settle some of those issues of money, because those are some of the hardest.

Liz: 39:07

Absolutely.

Ben: 39:08

Conflicts to resolve.

Liz: 39:09

It is, it's the money stuff it is. And I think too, having a time I mean, this is just a tidbit. I would suggest having a time, if not weekly, definitely monthly, where you're sitting down and you're looking at it and communicating and talking about. Hey, for us being entrepreneurs, we would have months of great increase.

Ben: 39:28

Right, right. And sometimes things would happen like a boat would show up in my yard or not a boat oh, it's okay.

Liz: 39:39

I mean whatever you know, I don't even know what other things, I'm not going to even go there, but but it's like okay, just having those kinds of uh kind of community, that kind of communication, where you're looking at it and remembering like I know Dave Ramsey talks about this having fun money, you know, you have your money, I have my money, blow money.

Liz: 39:54

You guys can do whatever you want to with it, and something like that. If you can start it off early in your marriage and if you've been married for decades, like us, it's never too late to try to figure that out at all. And then also, too, talking about what's a priority for one spouse and what's a priority for another spouse.

Ben: 40:11

I really feel like that's key, Liz. And what's priority for another spouse? I really feel like that's key, Liz. It's like sometimes people with the most kind of financial sense will just kind of come in and dictate how the money is going to go. I've seen that in relationships. And it's like an entire person is left out of some of those decisions. And I don't think that's biblical. Even if maybe you are the person with the most financial background, you've got the most financial sense, or how about?

Liz: 40:35

this, you're making the money.

Ben: 40:36

So sometimes I see this in marriages where I mean, I've seen it.

Liz: 40:41

Where, say, the husband is out there, he's making the dough and the wife is home and she's with the kids, not holding a job or anything like that, and the dictation always comes from well it's our money. Like you got to throw that out. I mean it's our money. It's not your money, it's our money. That's hard.

Ben: 40:59

And you got to think like, hey, that wife or whoever the person is at home maybe it is the husband, whoever it is like they're in it just as much. They're doing all the important things, like maybe possibly cleaning the home or taking care of the kids, and so that person going to work couldn't do all that stuff if they weren't there.

Liz: 41:14

Nope.

Ben: 41:14

It would look a lot different. And so there has to be that equity in that decision making where the other person feels like they're contributing, feels like they are heard, and so, talking about money, as hard as it is, that's super important for you guys.

Liz: 41:27

Yeah, and make sure that you're on the same goals, because I've seen it where maybe one spouse has this huge goal to get X amount of money in savings and then the kids are never getting new socks and shoes, because it's like squirrel away, squirrel away.

Ben: 41:42

And it's like, oh my gosh, our kids are like Someone's being neglected. Yeah, and so that's a good point.

Liz: 41:46

Yeah, anyway, the point is communication, talk about it, talk about it, talk about it. Money is so important.

Ben: 41:53

It is. And just like this next tip, which is also really important this, I think, goes back to Liz, what you were saying about dating and about spending time with that person, but this is also about drum roll please prioritizing intimacy.

Liz: 42:11

Yep.

Ben: 42:12

And not just sexual. All kinds Right Physical intimacy matters, yep. And not just sexual all kinds Right Physical intimacy matters. Yep, it's not the only kind that matters, though, right, and so you also want emotional and spiritual and even intellectual intimacy.

Liz: 42:26

Yeah.

Ben: 42:27

That's one thing that I love about you is that-.

Liz: 42:29

That I try to track with you as best as I can you humor me?

Ben: 42:33

I mean you're like, okay, let's hear about what you have to say or let's hear what your grand plan is, and I think it's just fun to be able to share with you some ideas or something I'm learning and you enjoy it. You might not always be interested in it, but you're interested in me, and so that makes it enjoyable for you.

Liz: 42:50

Well, yeah, and I appreciate that. Yeah, you Well. Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah, I'm glad you do. It's definitely interesting for me because I have no idea what you're learning or what's going to come out of your mouth. No, especially when I first wake up and there's a cup of coffee in my face and you're like hey. So I'm like what?

Ben: 43:05

I would have to say you probably draw the line with my job If I start talking programming or code with you. Save me.

Liz: 43:10

Take me home, beam me up, scotty, just take me home. But I've learned about, let's see, oh shoot, now I don't even know the names of the programs Python, and is it not Reddit? What is it? What is it Rust? I don't know.

Ben: 43:23

I don't even Please Different languages.

Liz: 43:26

My brain cells are leaving me Change the subject.

Ben: 43:31

So okay, the Change the subject so okay, the point is is that essentially, we want to be intimate with our partner in life. And it's not just physical, although that's very important and it's about making sure that you know the entirety of your spouse.

Liz: 43:47

Right, right, be interested in what they're interested in Spiritually, physically.

Ben: 43:53

All those things is important.

Liz: 43:53

Well, and I just want to say that when you were becoming a programmer, you're a webmaster, and then I don't even remember all your other titles that you've had but you would talk to me about all of these programming things and I'm like I don't know what the heck he's talking about. And so another friend of mine, her husband, was working with you, and so she and I made it a point to try to start understanding some of these terms so that we could appear interested in what you had to say I like it and so so very long, long, long time ago I was like, okay, I'm going to learn about C++, and I'm just saying that because it's an old, old one

Liz: 44:35

but like you know some of these, like things that were your life, you know, and and like you get excited about Apple and their new phone that's coming out and the new program and I'm like, okay, let's pop popcorn, and I could really care less, but it mattered to you. And I'm like I'm in there and I'm just thinking like there's other examples like maybe your husband loves basketball or your wife loves the ballet, maybe your husband loves basketball or your wife loves the ballet, you know.

Ben: 44:56

Or maybe your wife loves Pride and Prejudice. I actually kind of like Pride and Prejudice.

Liz: 44:59

That one's not hard for me. Yeah, he watched it all by himself. I don't have to act interested, I can actually be interested. Yeah, yeah, you like love, I like romance.

Ben: 45:06

Yeah, I don't like a lot of the sappy stuff, but if it's like culturally specific, like in, you know, Victorian era, that like that's interesting to me because of the history. Um so the, the, regency of it all.

Liz: 45:19

Um, and I'm thinking too, like you know, all the areas of connecting is also you dreaming? Because one of the things that I have learned about Ben, so you guys know that we love strength finders or I specifically do, and so does he.

Liz: 45:33

But I recently went back over Ben's top 10 in Strength Finders and he has ideation really high, which means he's filled with ideas. And when I read that I went, oh, that makes so much sense because Benjamin, right here, sitting right next to me, can have lots of ideas and a very short amount of time. And for me as his wife it's like okay, I'm going to do this. Okay, is he really thinking? Because I'm very practical, so I'm like okay, so he wants to get a pole barn. All right, now we're going to redo the driveway.

Liz: 46:07

Okay, wait, we're going to redo the kitchen, oh yeah, the pond, now one of his dreams Got goats now. Yeah, he's been talking to me for goats for years. We just got our goats. I don't know about this pond thing.

Ben: 46:17

I don't want to talk about it, yeah.

Liz: 46:19

Like one time we were driving down to the beach and you were dreaming and you're like. You know what, liz?

Ben: 46:26

we could live in trees and I was like Treehouse, yeah, yeah, and I said what? And Try to convince her that it was a good idea.

Liz: 46:33

I mean, he was like ideating full on and I said, well, what about lions? And you're like, well, it, kids are like toddlers. I'm like what if they fall off the tree house, you know? And I'm like, I'm like, you know, not shooting down your ideas, but just kind of like. And so what I've learned is that when you're ideating, I will say to you are you just dreaming right now?

Ben: 46:57

And you'll say yeah, no-transcript, and so connecting with you right Connecting with you, and that's just yeah, that's just one way and I can think of. Also, a way that you like to connect is through dance.

Liz: 47:43

Oh yeah, I love to dance, so we've been doing dancing on a semi-regular basis.

Ben: 47:48

Yep and we go and it's been fun and I've been learning.

Liz: 47:52

You should see Ben and I do the tango.

Ben: 47:54

I can do the tango somewhat Somewhat. I can do like two or three movements in the tango and that's about it. That's about all I got.

Liz: 48:02

No, you're pretty good.

Ben: 48:03

It's fun. It's fun, it's fun.

Liz: 48:04

But when we put on this music, like when we put on our ballroom music, the kids are like scatter. Yeah, they're like, oh they're going to make us, but our kids do no swing.

Ben: 48:13

Speaking of ideas.

Liz: 48:14

Yo no, here we go, I have this grand idea. Oh no.

Ben: 48:26

To be able to dance Lord. So that's my big, that's my big pie in the sky is like I'm going to do dancing with her because I love to skate. And I also love to do like the jam skating thing where we're moving and dancing together, if you guys go to our one blessed mess on Instagram or on Facebook.

Liz: 48:38

One of the first videos we ever posted, if I'm not mistaken, is Ben on skates with a leaf blower. Mistaken is Ben on skates with a leaf blower. This is around Christmas time, out in front of our house with the and on the road, because we just got the road paved, and he's out there using I don't know why you're. What were you doing?

Ben: 48:55

Well, I was doing it so we could clear the road, so we could all skate on it.

Liz: 48:59

Exactly, ben is a jam skater Like he's hilarious.

Liz: 49:02

I try, I mean no, you're pretty good, like no, no, no mean. No, you're pretty good, like no, no, no, no. You're pretty good, like when the kids have birthday parties and that they're friends at their school. Okay, so the school that our kids went to, they had a skate night. Ben went to it and, I kid you not, the next day I'm getting messages, emails from teachers and they're like I had no idea that your husband was such a good skater because he went to the, the skate night, the kids' school I didn't go, he went and then you know what happened is the kids' friends.

Liz: 49:29

When they had skate parties they invited our kids but they wanted Ben to come and there were a few times he didn't come and the kids were upset.

Ben: 49:37

Yeah, they were Because you're that good.

Liz: 49:39

I'm not kidding people, he's hilarious, you're actually really good. I'm a little scared to skate and dance, but pretty much what it is is we go out skating like on a date night, like you hold my hands and I just hold on and pray.

Ben: 49:56

Well, I did break my tailbone one time.

Liz: 49:58

Yes, you did At a kid's birthday party.

Ben: 50:00

Yeah.

Liz: 50:01

Let's remember this.

Ben: 50:01

I'm starting to show my age here.

Liz: 50:02

Yeah, yeah, but date nights are important, that is, and that's an important one, and being intimacy.

Ben: 50:07

prioritizing intimacy is really important and one of the resources that we liked and again, a lot of these resources we try to eat the meat, spit out the bones, right, we heard that said a whole bunch. But we got a lot out of the Great Sex Rescue by Sheila Gregory and we also got quite a bit out of sheet music, and so I think both of those are good and you know again, take what works for you.

Ben: 50:32

Each relationship is going to be different. There's different things that are applicable in different times, different seasons of the relationship. So it's just good to always kind of keep an open mind and to try some different resources and see what sticks. And so those are two that that work for us. Um, let's move on to the tip number eight. What do you think?

Liz: 50:50

I think that's a good one.

Ben: 50:51

All right, tip number eight. You want to do this one.

Liz: 50:54

Sure. Create family traditions that matter. Create them.

Ben: 50:59

Like what kinds of traditions?

Liz: 51:00

Well, family devotions. Um, I feel like that is really good because that's strengthening spiritual bonds.

Ben: 51:06

Yes.

Liz: 51:07

We really prioritize that in our family. It's not every day. I want people to know that it's ebbs and flows with our schedule but we make it a priority so many times at least in the week.

Ben: 51:16

And we talk a little bit about that in episode nine. So if you want a little bit more information on that and what does family devotions look like? And we have a really funny story that you can listen to in episode nine about that.

Liz: 51:27

There's always a funny story, always a funny story.

Ben: 51:29

But I think what it does is like these traditions, these rituals that we form as a family. They help bring security when there's times of chaos and things are going not great, right.

Ben: 51:40

We can always fall back on that and again, it's like making sure that we're prioritizing the right things by adding those to our traditions, so it's not just traditions for tradition's sake, right, it's not just ritual for ritual's sake. It's like when we actually think of what's important and we were prioritized, be that with the Lord, our relationship with the Lord, our relationship with each other, like embodied time. These are things that help strengthen those family bonds and it helps us keep an anchor when things go rough.

Liz: 52:07

Right, exactly when there's rough waters and I'm thinking if you're a newlywed or you're on your way to getting married. You know I had, I had he's laughing because he knows what I'm about to say I thought that when I married Ben, we were going to have Bible study every morning, he was going to lead me through the word of God and that, you know, we would have our Bibles open in a journal and you know we were going to go precept upon precept and so maybe there's a guy out there that does that.

Ben: 52:32

I mean kudos to you. That may be happening, I don't know.

Liz: 52:33

But you know that obviously did not happen in our marriage. It was, like you know, we got pregnant three months in and then I was really tired and like you know, it was like, it was like a fight for survival. Yeah, and then you know, then a baby came and then we had more babies, more babies. And so a lot of that got put on the shelf. But I was, I remember like coming to you and being like I'm, I was upset with you and I felt dissed, I felt not heard, I felt like maybe I married wrong, like stupid things like that.

Liz: 53:02

And um, I came to you and I said, hey, I feel like you're not leading us spiritually. And you said wait a second.

Liz: 53:13

Now remember Ben is a teacher. So wait a second, what do you mean by that? I'm like well, I feel like you're not leading me spiritually because you're not leading me in Bible study. And you said, oh, let's talk about what it means for me to lead you spiritually. And you laid it out. You basically talked about how Christ loves the church, you, you're providing, you're loving, you're keeping the marriage bed clean, you know all these kinds of things. And I thought, oh, you're right. And then, in your sweetest little way, you looked at me and you said, no offense, but when am I having time with God alone? I kind of don't want you there.

Ben: 53:40

And I was like don't be offended, don't be offended, don't be offended. But like I mean, do you remember saying that? I think so. Yeah, okay, that's pretty early on, yeah.

Liz: 53:51

Yeah, but you know, the the thing is is I was like, oh, I guess that does make sense. And then it made me not be angry with you, Like when.

Liz: 53:58

I saw you having quiet time and not inviting me in it and just realizing like you have your own personal walk with God and you have things that are pulling at you all day long too. Your job is very demanding and your business is demanding, and so being able to have that time with him is super important, just as it is important for me and we do come together, we share what we're getting from the Lord. I mean, still we're not studying out the Bible together we're on different, we're on different tracks.

Ben: 54:26

We're doing it separately, but we're yeah, we're not doing it joint together everything and that's yeah. I think that's where you're going right right, that's what I'm saying.

Liz: 54:33

Yeah, now we'll do family devotions where we all kind of come together, but you know it's more of that and we like.

Ben: 54:39

What's the word I'm looking for?

Liz: 54:41

not depress, uh, debrief we debrief at, sometimes at the end of the day, and we share what we're learned or what we're going through, like the Lord is speaking, yeah, yeah.

Ben: 54:50

So definitely we have times of connection when we're bringing it back together.

Liz: 54:53

Absolutely, and it's really cool when, like the Lord is speaking the exact same thing to you that he's speaking to me whether it was in our devotions or conversations and things like that and our family devotion time is part of tradition. We're both getting things out of it, but we're also training our kids you know, and that's important.

Liz: 55:09

So, anyway, all that to say, I do love you and do respect your time with the Lord, and even though you're not, you know, diligently giving me those tests on Song of Solomon, well, yeah, maybe in the next 10 years. I'll know you're crazy. There's always room for improvement. You're crazy.

Ben: 55:29

So those were our eight tips, but we've got one final bonus tip.

Liz: 55:32

Bonus round. Here we go. Bonus round Number nine.

Ben: 55:35

This is the bonus tip. This one, I think, is specifically applicable in our day and age maybe even in the last 10 to 15 years. It's limit digital distractions.

Liz: 55:46

Yes.

Ben: 55:47

We just did a massive deep dive. The last episode Family Digital Detox Longest episode.

Liz: 55:52

You guys check that out, yeah.

Ben: 55:53

Longest episode by far, but super dense. There's a lot of good information in that. Basically, what it comes down to is we are made for embodied experiences, right? And if we are spending the majority of our time on digital devices, then we're actually short-circuiting our brains a way to connect with other people, right? So we want to experience this concept called mutual mind, which is basically when two faces come together and there is a even unconscious synchronization of brains that are looking face to face and experiencing some of the same character and emotion together.

Ben: 56:33

Absolutely and that happens through conversation. That happens through synchronous conversation being synced with one another.

Liz: 56:40

No distractions.

Ben: 56:41

Yeah, no distractions, you're giving your full attention. So we said all that to say that when we are distracted with our digital distractions and our binge watching of things or giving ourselves to video games or even social media I know social media is a big one for women Gaming is typically a thing more for men. That always have to be that way. I mean, it can go either way, but there's just so much distraction in our culture today. We just feel like it's massively imperative to say hey, we've got to prioritize the face to face.

Liz: 57:13

Right.

Ben: 57:14

And we've seen so much fruit from this, when we do that. When we are prioritizing our time with one another, our attention with one another we reap so much good things that come from that.

Liz: 57:28

And we have a digital detox PDF guide that you can download if you want.

Ben: 57:30

It's totally free. It's on our website, it's on our website it's um.

Liz: 57:33

we can maybe even put it in the notes for this one. Um, but you guys, it is really really good and it's so helpful, um, and you can do this even single.

Ben: 57:42

you don't have to do it you know, in a family you do it married, you can do it with your family.

Liz: 57:46

But highly recommend it Because early on, when we were married, what was happening? Ben Brand.

Ben: 57:53

Well, this is a. I feel like I'm telling all the stories of what not to do.

Liz: 57:56

I sleep too much, but that's what people want to hear. No, it's okay that you sleep.

Ben: 58:03

I'm not with was gaming. Right and so I came into the marriage and, like you and I spent two years Apart Apart and that was our relationship Right. So when we got together married, this was like some of the first times that we were spending ample amounts of time together Well, in the same city, like weeks and weeks and weeks together.

Liz: 58:22

We had never really done that, yeah.

Ben: 58:28

We hadn't done that before, so getting married it was kind of not a rude awakening but just you know we were seeing things of one another that we hadn't because we were long distance relationship. So one of the things you saw about me was that I actually played too much video games, uh-huh. And this was back when, like the internet, gaming was becoming a thing and high-speed internet was becoming more and more available.

Liz: 58:49

No more dial-up.

Ben: 58:50

And I remember in our apartment we got high-speed internet and I was like oh my gosh, this is amazing.

Liz: 58:54

Oh, I remember this. So back in gosh, this was early 2000s and we're married and then newly pregnant, and then I'm neglecting you because I'm staying up late playing video games and you would stay up really late, like till two or three in the morning, and then you would have to get up and go to work.

Ben: 59:14

Right, and so I was just dog tired. Yeah, you were dog tired.

Liz: 59:17

You weren't prioritizing sleep then.

Ben: 59:19

No.

Liz: 59:20

It's only later, but I didn't realize how much you were playing video games because I was newly pregnant and I would just I would sleep. I'd come home from work and lay down on the couch and be out and wake up like five, six hours and I'm like, oh my gosh, you know, because it was a new baby, I mean it was just conceived, and so what happened?

Ben: 59:38

So I felt the conviction of the Lord and I just quit cold Turkey playing video games.

Liz: 59:43

Yes, you did.

Ben: 59:44

And so that was hard but it was necessary and I knew that. For me and just the way that I'm wired, I like to get in and master something. I like to stay on the details of something. And so video games was just like that. There was just a natural kind of addiction or addictive quality to it, because I wanted to master it and I wanted to be number one, and I would just find myself spending way too much time and then neglecting you and even my own sleep, which is very precious, in case you haven't noticed.

Ben: 1:00:14

So, it was definitely like a heads up moment.

Liz: 1:00:17

And.

Ben: 1:00:18

I really felt the Lord say you've got to give this up this is important if you want to stay married Again. I'm not saying everybody has to give up video games. Hear me out. I'm not saying that For me personally, though. I knew that I had to stop playing online games because they were too addictive.

Liz: 1:00:34

They were, and because you made that, our marriage did have a turn, like there was a turn.

Ben: 1:00:41

Even early on, even early on.

Liz: 1:00:43

Absolutely, absolutely.

Ben: 1:00:44

Yeah. So bonus tip number nine right Limit digital distractions. Find out what your maybe addictions are when it comes to digital things, because really it's super highly addictive. There's brain science being employed, so that way you stay engaged with screens, with devices, with social media, with games. It's crazy. Once you lift that curtain and you see the mechanism behind everything, then you're like oh man, I really should lay down some rules.

Liz: 1:01:16

Yeah, you'll be red pilled. And maybe you're like I don't want to be red pilled, but you do want to be red pilled.

Ben: 1:01:21

Yeah, you do, because you don't want to waste your time, and this goes back to also making sure that you are having the right priority of your time, making sure that you're prioritizing your spouse and also connecting with your spouse face to face. So if those kind of screen time addictions are interfering with that, then obviously you got to make a change.

Liz: 1:01:43

Exactly so let's throw in some funny stories.

Liz: 1:01:45

I was just thinking about right after we got married, um, we had our first night at an Airbnb uh, a BNB, they didn't have Airbnb segment but, um, we were on our way to our destination on a cruise ship and we talked about this in one of the episodes I can't remember which one it was, and you know, uh, you were not the planner fully and I didn't know I was going to have to wear the planning hat and all that stuff. And so, you know, we kind of had our first like fight as a married couple on the way to our cruise ship, which was our honeymoon, because I was like you don't know what time the cruise ship is leaving. You're like, no, I'm like what. I'm like do don't know what time the cruise ship is leaving. You're like, no, I'm like what.

Liz: 1:02:26

I'm like do you have a number? And so I remember calling the 1-800 number, because we had cell phones then and asking what is the latest time that we can get on the ship? And we had like five hours to drive and it was like four hours and they shut down the security and you couldn't get on the ship. So that meant that we had to make up an hour and where we live in the South, there had already been a ton of hurricanes that had come through and ruined the highways.

Ben: 1:02:54

Right, and so A bridge was completely down. A bridge was gone in one spot.

Liz: 1:02:58

It was like all this kind of stuff, and so what happened, benjamin?

Ben: 1:03:01

So I made you drive as fast as possible.

Liz: 1:03:05

And why was I the one driving?

Ben: 1:03:07

Because I had too many speeding tickets.

Liz: 1:03:11

So, as we're talking newly married and I'm like, wait, we have to think about the time change. And then I'm like, oh my gosh, we have got to get there. Like we have to make up time and so stress.

Ben: 1:03:23

Don't tell them how fast you were going, because we don't want to be incriminating, but you were going very fast.

Liz: 1:03:28

And there was a line of cars behind me following me as I am zipping in and out of traffic to get there, and we were like one of the last ones on the ship. It was really a miracle that we even made the ship. But I remember being so stressed and so angry at you and like how did you not read the fine detail? Well, it's okay, I had to forgive him right then. I was learning the crazy cycle immediately. We hadn't opened up the duffel bag from your dad yet that's right.

Ben: 1:03:58

Yeah, we hadn't gotten in there yet. But, I'm thinking of another story too, when-oh, when we were newly married.

Liz: 1:04:06

Okay.

Ben: 1:04:06

Probably the first, I don't know six, seven months or so, and you have this incredible ability, uh-oh, to be able to sense when there are cops.

Liz: 1:04:17

Oh yes, why don't you tell them what your nickname is for me?

Ben: 1:04:21

I say that you have the copdar.

Liz: 1:04:23

He calls me his copdar.

Ben: 1:04:25

Yeah, you've got a cop dar.

Liz: 1:04:26

So what is that so?

Ben: 1:04:27

basically you're, you have a radar for cops. I really do and it honestly it's kind of weird, it is yeah, yeah, yeah, like literally, you were asleep one time and I was driving, we were driving in the family and you were asleep as late at night and you woke up out of a dead sleep and like slow Down, slow down, slow down, I down. And I was like what, what, what? Like I know there's a cop, I just know it.

Liz: 1:04:46

Sure enough, yeah, yeah, there's a cop. And sure enough, and sometimes I'll even be like, hey, listen, there's a cop, there's a cop. Slow down over this ridge, I'm telling you right now. And we've gotten over rid not going to it's helping our budget.

Ben: 1:04:57

I'm not going to question it. It's helping our budget, but one time it didn't help our budget because we were mad at one another. You were mad at me.

Liz: 1:05:13

We were Okay. We were trying to go out on a date because my love tank was empty and I communicated to you I need romance, I need you to take me out to dinner and I need a movie or something just like what you would have done before we were married. And you're like, okay, you know, so we go and do it. But there was something that happened and we were. It wasn't I don't know. It was my expectations, I'm sure we're not being met, which that can ruin a marriage too.

Liz: 1:05:36

We've learned that, and so, anyway, I somehow, we had words, and this is after the movie, and we're driving home, and this is probably the first time that this cop dar thing was really starting to work for me, I guess. So we're driving and you're you're speeding to go home cause you're mad, and I was like, oh, I know there's a cop up there. I don't know how I knew there was a cop, I just knew there was a cop and I was like you know what? I'm not going, he deserves a ticket.

Ben: 1:06:02

And so yeah, and then you realize, wait, we share the same bank account, wait.

Liz: 1:06:06

I didn't realize that until so. You get pulled over, you get a ticket and I say to you afterwards I'm like I knew there was a cop and you go. Why didn't you tell me in the most sincere way, like you're like, why didn't you tell me and I was like Did?

Liz: 1:06:18

your cop car broken, and so that's like when we're first discovering it anyway. And I said well, you know you were, I was mad, and so, anyway, we like end up having a whole conversation about like we're a team and you know, expecting the best out of you and not thinking like you're the enemy and I'm the enemy, and that we're on each other's team, we're in each other's corner and believing the best in you.

Liz: 1:06:43

You believing the best in me. And so in the process of that it was like, oh shoot, I really should have told him. And then the ticket came in the mail and we were on a shoestring budget and I was like, oh, I am never not going to tell him, right?

Ben: 1:06:57

And so I always no matter how mad you are.

Liz: 1:06:58

No matter how angry I am because it's got to come out of our budget, right. And so you know, I do have that little crazy spidey sense of like there's a cop, slow down, you know, and uh, you know it's kind of funny it could even be like an accident. You know, we come up on accident and there's a cop there, but I knew it.

Ben: 1:07:14

I don't know how.

Liz: 1:07:15

I just knew, and so.

Ben: 1:07:16

I don't question it anymore.

Liz: 1:07:17

Yeah, it's funny, because before you thought it was crazy.

Ben: 1:07:20

Yeah yeah, we don't talk about that. I've already unearthed enough stuff about me.

Liz: 1:07:25

No, just kidding. Love and marriage, oh yeah, oh yeah.

Ben: 1:07:28

Yeah, it's good. Okay, we talked about a lot. I think there's a lot of good stuff here but, the takeaway? I think the biggest takeaway from all of this is prioritizing your spouse's needs over your own. I mean, if I had to sum it up into one word, just being unselfish, right yeah, learning how to serve your spouse, that whole servitarian thing, the first tip we talked about, it's all kind of related right. Selfishness just kills marriages. I found out the hard way. I mean, I've done it wrong so many times.

Liz: 1:07:57

So have I.

Ben: 1:07:58

And we just have to follow the Lord's example. He came, you know, not to be served but to serve. And if we expect anything more than that, even in our marriages, like that's a, that's a marriage killer. So we just have to learn to prioritize the other person, serve the other person, find out their needs. Like, don't be selfish. Selfishness is a marriage killer.

Liz: 1:08:20

It is. It's a weed.

Ben: 1:08:21

Yeah.

Liz: 1:08:21

It's a weed and we want to. We want to recognize those things and you know um them out and we want to make sure we're keeping short accounts as well, you know that's part of being selfless.

Ben: 1:08:32

Yeah, Even when we are selfish, forgive you know. Making sure that you say you're sorry, making sure you forgive your spouse. So important. Just reading from Ephesians 5, 20-21, giving thanks always for everything to God, the Father, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Submitting to one another in the fear of Christ.

Ben: 1:08:52

I think, that's super important being able to submit one to another, being able to be unselfish. I feel like man. If we can learn to do that well, we will be so much better in our marriages. Absolutely Fruitful, that's right. Being fruitful our marriages.

Liz: 1:09:04

Absolutely Fruitful. That's right, being fruitful, fruitful and multiply Fruitful. Well, yes, and multiply God's original discipleship and evangelism program. Oh Lord.

Ben: 1:09:15

Well, make those disciples.

Liz: 1:09:17

Yes, yes.

Ben: 1:09:18

The fun way.

Liz: 1:09:18

The fun way. Lord, we better get off of this episode.

Ben: 1:09:21

Okay.

Liz: 1:09:21

So thanks for being a part of our one blessed mess today. Gosh, I hope you enjoyed this. I hope you laughed with us and enjoyed it. Don't forget to subscribe and share with a friend who may need the encouragement, or newly engaged couple, or newly married, or maybe 80 years 80 years. If somebody has been married for 80 years. I would like to have coffee with them. I would like to hear what their wisdom is you?

Liz: 1:09:43

know and just hear what would they have to say. You know, and also too, I know that we didn't say this, but say I love you often.

Liz: 1:09:50

You know it's important to hear that I've heard a lot of older couples say say I love you every day. But anyway, we just want to say thank you, thank you, thank you for being here today, thank you for being a part of it. We love getting feedback. If there's something that you would like to hear what our thoughts are on, just DM us, because, you know, email us whatever we would love to. We'd love to tackle some of that and we want to just say until next time, embrace your beautiful mess, because if our mess can be blessed, then what? Ben?

Ben: 1:10:17

So can yours.