Liz: 0:12

All right, welcome to our One Blessed Mess. This is Ben and Liz, and we are here with our story of having six kids in eight years, managing our entrepreneurial home with two businesses, homeschooling and currently navigating life with not one, not two, not three, but four teenagers, plus seven chickens and two dogs, just to keep it interesting, yeah.

Ben: 0:37

You might have noticed a different number of chickens. We had a little boo-boo happen.

Liz: 0:44

We did. Oh, it's so sad. We lost our favorite chicken yesterday. Actually, she was Mama Jean. Mama Jean, she took care of all of our baby chicks that we have hatched from the incubator and that's like a whole nother episode that we'll have to talk about that. But we lost her and it happens. It happens sometimes on the farm.

Ben: 1:06

Yeah, it was sad. We had a door malfunction and unfortunately a fox got a hold of it.

Liz: 1:13

Yeah, that part's pretty sad and that does happen, and we get critters on our property, you know.

Ben: 1:18

We do All kinds of critters Every now and then. Sometimes we even get critters inside our house too.

Liz: 1:24

Really Like when.

Ben: 1:27

Well, I'm thinking of a very specific example, in our bedroom actually.

Liz: 1:31

Wait, you mean you, the animal in our bedroom? No, I'm just kidding. No, come on, I live there. I mean, I know I'm an animal and all that, just kidding. No, I'm thinking of the animal.

Ben: 1:43

Well, I guess, yeah, the animal that you found behind.

Liz: 1:48

Oh, okay, I know what story you're talking about. Okay, we should share this. This is actually a very funny story, so I'll give the backstory to it. I guess we have a gravel driveway.

Liz: 2:01

Yeah Right, gravel driveway, okay, and we get a lot of rain where we live, and so Ben needed to put in culverts because the rocks were. We got new rock and it was going away, so he and the kids were on a mission to get the new culverts in the ground. While they were outside doing that, I was inside deep cleaning our bedroom I'm talking baseboards and taking everything off shelves and everything. I was just full on cleaning our bedroom and I was behind this one particular bookshelf, like in the corner, and as I was getting all the books off of the bookshelf, I looked behind to see if anything's ever fallen back there. And lo and behold, what did you find?

Ben: 2:40

What did you find I?

Liz: 2:41

found this blob that look. It looked like a rat. That's what it looked like a rat.

Ben: 2:48

What color was it?

Liz: 2:49

It was black. I mean it was dark behind the bookshelf because the way the lights were hitting it. So, of course. I mean, I felt it in my throat, I felt it in my stomach and so I quickly went outside in my flip-flops and this is an important detail about these flip-flops. So I ran outside real quick to get Ben, but I gently whispered it to you because I didn't want the kids to be distracted.

Ben: 3:10

Right, right, right, right and you know, tried to hold.

Liz: 3:13

yeah, try to keep the peace trying to keep the peace and also for them to not you know, no, because then it would be a big. Oh, it'd be a big distraction.

Ben: 3:21

Yeah, that would have been bye-bye, culvert time and hello rat hunt, that's right, right.

Liz: 3:32

So I I tell ben and you say, well, I can't go in there right now and take care of it.

Ben: 3:34

I've got to get these culverts. Yeah, the sun was setting, so we had to.

Liz: 3:36

We had to focus, we did have to focus but I was like, seriously, you can't come in, like because it stopped me dead on my tracks, like I couldn't finish what I was doing as it should have right, right. So then, in my flip-flops I grab a shovel and I start digging these culverts and covering them up so we can get done quicker, so I can handle the rat issue. Even the kids are like man, mom, wow, you're really good at this. Well, I was motivated, I was very motivated, yeah you were.

Ben: 4:03

Yes, so we get done with the culverts and then I go in.

Liz: 4:07

You went in you came inside and by this time we've told the kids because mom's got a big black trash bag.

Ben: 4:13

Yeah, we got the gloves, we got the mask on. We're ready to take care of this Rat, this invader.

Liz: 4:20

This bedroom invader. I mean, and I'm freaking out. I'm thinking how the heck did it get in my house. Is there another?

Ben: 4:27

one. It's been in my bedroom. Yeah Right, maybe it had babies.

Liz: 4:29

I hope not.

Ben: 4:30

Anyway. So I get down there and I'm, you know, looking around, yep, and I'm about to grab it, and then I noticed I'm like you know what, this thing looks a little too perfect and it kind of had a little sheen to it that was different than like what you would expect a rat fur to be, than like what you would expect a rat fur to be. And then it dawned on me, you know, I had bought a rubber rat and I couldn't remember where it went. So we found out where it went. There it was, but unbeknownst to you.

Ben: 5:00

I picked that thing up and chunked it right at you.

Liz: 5:03

He threw it. He threw it at me, so I naturally start. I don't even know this piece, that it's not.

Ben: 5:10

You probably hit octaves that you hadn't. I didn't even know.

Liz: 5:13

I could, and I'm screaming, I'm freaking out, freaking out.

Ben: 5:20

Yeah.

Liz: 5:21

Yeah.

Ben: 5:22

Yeah.

Liz: 5:22

But then it became a game. How did it become a game?

Ben: 5:25

Oh yeah, so then the kids they saw all this go down Right, they saw mom's reaction and they saw dad laughing hysterically, and so it became a game of hide the rat so mom can find it again.

Liz: 5:38

And it wasn't just one day like I went into the cupboard to get bowls and there's that stupid ugly nasty thing, and then I mean they were putting it in the shower under my pillow.

Liz: 6:01

Why are you laughing? Yeah, flashbacks, flashbacks. It was terrible. I mean even now, right now, I can feel it up in my throat. My shoulders are tense. It was terrible the whole week. I threw that thing away. I was like, and that is going in the trash. I was done, so done. I threw that thing away. I was like, and that is going in the trash. I was done, so done. I'm done. Right now I don't even want to talk about it anymore.

Ben: 6:15

You think we might need some more therapy on this one.

Liz: 6:17

Well, maybe I don't know.

Ben: 6:19

But it kind of segues to our topic which is offense. Yeah, this is kind of our right to offense Yep and our right to offense Yep. And we came across this concept of a right to offense by reading this incredible book by our favorite author, who happens to be Brant Hansen, and the book is called Unaffendable and some of the main topics behind this book is your right to offense.

Ben: 6:48

It addresses that behind this book is your right to offense and addresses that um and so one of the things that we really like about brandt is just his uniqueness.

Ben: 6:57

I mean, he is a really cool dude, but not cool in the like, I guess, the ways you would expect he's. He's very unique because he actually has, uh, two neurological conditions. One he's on the spectrum and the other is that his eyes don't stay straight. His eyes move back and forth all the time, right, and so to compensate for that, he has to move his head back and forth pretty much all the time, yep, and so, on this topic of offense and unoffendability, you know, he's kind of of having to dig himself out of a hole because everywhere and everyone he meets, he's basically telling them no.

Liz: 7:35

All the time. He's always shaking his head. And why do we love him so much, Ben? He's so real.

Ben: 7:41

And what do you always say?

Liz: 7:43

He's so funny, he's funny, but I have this saying about his style and the way he writes it's like a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine to go down because it's truth. It cuts you to the heart, but it's written in humor and it's bite sizes. And I love the way he writes because you can listen to or read one chapter and there's a finite end. It's not like you have to get to the next chapter to try to understand and unpack all of what he's saying. And the way it all flows is pretty brilliant.

Ben: 8:14

Lots of stories, lots of great stories. How many?

Liz: 8:16

times have you read this book that we're talking about?

Ben: 8:18

right now, so I've read this book in one form or fashion, mostly listened to through. Audible but five times, at least, at least five times.

Liz: 8:27

Yeah, and we've listened to it as a family on Audible twice.

Ben: 8:32

Yeah, at least three, maybe three times, maybe three times Possibly, possibly Because we go on long trips in the summer in the car with kids.

Liz: 8:38

We're not always flying with six kids.

Ben: 8:40

No, no, pricey, pricey.

Liz: 8:41

Yeah, but anyway. So the kids have listened to it and they and they love it. Like when we stop to get gas, they're like hurry up, get in the car we want to hear this part.

Ben: 8:49

Play the book again, dad, yeah.

Liz: 8:50

Play the book again, dad, so it's a great book.

Ben: 8:53

It is a great book and we bought a case. We did, yeah, and we bought a case of books. We gave them all away. Gave them all away, I think we more than ever. Yeah, that's true by Pew Research and they say, basically, 62% say people being too easily offended by others. What they say is a major problem in the country today. So you know way more than the majority believe it's a problem, believe that we're too easily offended.

Liz: 9:44

This is true, though this is just what people say not do.

Ben: 9:46

The question was are people being offended by what others say as a problem, and the answer is yes. I would imagine that number goes way up if you say what about what people do? So this is just what people are saying, and I mean here's a thought experiment. If you aren't convinced about that, maybe just go put something just the slightest bit political don't do it on your social media account.

Liz: 10:14

Then go pop some popcorn don't do it sit down and just wait for the hate comments to come in okay, you so did that, like years ago, when there was an election that was going on. Yes, and you just learned my lesson yeah you did.

Liz: 10:30

You just put a few things out there and then, um, do you remember you would come skipping out of your office? And I'm like, ben, what did you just do? And you're like, oh nothing, quickly go to social media. I'm like, oh, I mean one of the posts, and it wasn't even bad stuff, you guys, it was just like you know around questions or yeah, something that you're pointing out it wasn't even bad, but but, but because of social media, it's like everybody was fired and charged.

Ben: 10:57

And so one of the posts.

Liz: 10:58

you got hundreds of comments.

Ben: 10:59

Yeah, it was a little cray cray, that's true, yeah, and I think it just people feel like it's you're right.

Liz: 11:05

Yeah.

Ben: 11:06

Be offended and voice that offense.

Liz: 11:08

Yep.

Ben: 11:09

And you know, being in a culture as believers like I, feel like that just seeps in.

Liz: 11:14

And so.

Ben: 11:15

Brandt, like one of his big conclusions is just that you have to give your right to be offended up.

Ben: 11:21

You know, like you don't, you're not entitled to it. I guess is what the point is. And then, beyond that, he would say you know, we, we've all heard this. Um, you know that there's such thing as righteous anger, right, all right, and and and. Most people, I think, would say well, you know, god gets angry, so that's righteous anger. But they use that example and then they kind of apply it to themselves Like, well, I have the right to get angry because it's righteous.

Liz: 11:48

Right.

Ben: 11:49

I mean, I've heard that. Have you heard that?

Liz: 11:51

Maybe from myself. Yes.

Ben: 11:53

I've heard that from you.

Liz: 11:54

I heard that from you.

Ben: 11:55

Well, yeah, hey, this is this blessed. It's real life.

Liz: 12:00

This one blessed podcast.

Ben: 12:02

So hey we're messy. We're a mess. We're a mess, but you know, here's the point, right, I think only God can claim righteous anger. And the point is is because we aren a righteous cause and we camp out and we harbor that anger towards someone who maybe be the perpetrator or the one that's doing the offense.

Ben: 12:27

we are just not good judges of character, because we don't have all the details and we can call a spade a spade. But to camp out and to stay offended and to stay in anger, I think is not a biblical way to do life. And here's a great point. If your righteous anger boils up and starts to become something that is more like bitterness, then it has a propensity to start bringing division right and so I just want to read a quick proverb, which is uh?

Ben: 13:05

six proverbs 6, 16 through 19. There are six things that the lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him haughty eyes, a lying tongue and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lives and one who sows discord among brothers and so sometimes that's intense yeah that's intense.

Ben: 13:32

Sometimes, referencing a number followed by one more is kind of like this common Hebrew literary pattern, and it implies that the final item is like the summary or the culmination of the others. And so here it's like the abomination is the discord that's sown between brothers, and so when your righteous anger produces that kind of discord, then maybe we ought to look at how righteous it really is.

Liz: 14:04

Ooh, so intense. Just a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down. I mean really.

Ben: 14:14

I know so another. Another one of his points is he says get rid of anger, replace it with gratitude and humility. And he has this great story about that. Guy's an idiot. Oh yes, that's one of his chapter titles.

Liz: 14:29

Our kids think that chapter is hilarious. Yeah, they get a really big kick out of it. It's a good chapter, yeah.

Ben: 14:34

But anyways, the premise is just that, like in the example that he uses, is you know, he's driving to the gym one day and some guy you know kind of cuts him off to get to a parking spot. He goes in real quick and he's like man, that guy's an idiot, you know, I was like here I was, I was coming up, I was trying to get in that space and he just zoomed right in. Well, wouldn't you know it, the next day he's that guy.

Ben: 14:56

He sees this open spot and he goes in real quick and he looks over. He's like, oh man, that guy's an idiot. And then he thinks to himself wait a minute, I was that guy yesterday. You know that guy's always an idiot. It's never I'm an idiot. And then you know, that's kind of the conclusion. It's like if you apply a little humility and gratitude in situations like maybe we'll start seeing it a little different, you know, maybe we'll start seeing it a little different. Maybe we'll start seeing that sometimes maybe we're the idiot.

Ben: 15:23

But yeah, replacing anger with gratitude and humility, man, that's an intense one. Another one of his conclusions embrace forgiveness, even in the Lord's Prayer, like it's something we have to do on a daily basis and it's something that we do in order to be forgiven, right? Not that one precedes the other, it's a twofer, right? Yes, it is, you got to receive forgiveness and you got to give it, but we just I mean, embracing forgiveness is kind of counterculture as well. And then a couple of those points adjust expectations. I mean, gosh, we're all human, we all have human nature, we're all fallen Like, sometimes our expectations are just a little too high. We all need forgiveness.

Ben: 16:16

And then, lastly, one of the main points that I got away, got out of this book, was just, don't just condemn culture, but instead think of ways that you can redeem it. And one example is like you don't want to just be known for what you're against, but you also want to put that same energy into being known for what you're for as well. So anyways, those are some of the main highlights of the book.

Liz: 16:30

But there's so many good stories. I mean, your dad's Bible study has been going through it. Your dad's men's group yeah.

Ben: 16:37

Yeah, I mean he's you know. So we shared with my father and he's been sharing it with everybody he knows and man, it's just it's had these like ripple effects through these different people. One of my best friends has read it and you know he loves it, and so it's just really an introspective book.

Liz: 16:53

Yeah.

Ben: 16:53

And we feel like it would be great, be great, to read, but read, but um, we also wanted to just mention, too, that there's also, uh, physiological effects when you harbor.

Liz: 17:06

This is true offense.

Ben: 17:08

Yes, then it can actually lead to more of that fight or flight mode and that can cause some physiological changes. In fact um, let's see who. Who's this MD Karen Swartz, director of the Mood Disorders at Johns Hopkins Hospital. She's basically saying that there is an enormous physical burden to being hurt and disappointed and that it can start to increase things like depression heart disease, diabetes, among other conditions.

Ben: 17:41

And basically her conclusion is like forgiveness can actually reverse those effects and start to calm down that fight or flight response. So I just don't think we're made, even physically made, to camp out in that offense posture for very long.

Liz: 17:57

No.

Ben: 17:57

Yeah.

Liz: 17:58

Because if you do, it can make you sick or keep you sick.

Ben: 18:01

It can, and offense can lead to what the Bible calls a bitter root, and that causes all kinds of problems.

Liz: 18:07

A lot of problems, yeah, and you want to get the bitter roots out.

Ben: 18:11

Speaking of bitter roots, I'm thinking of a story.

Liz: 18:13

Oh no, you and your stories today we were early married, I think a month in. Oh, I know a story you're talking about.

Ben: 18:21

You know which one.

Liz: 18:22

Oh, yes, I do.

Ben: 18:22

You want to set some context.

Liz: 18:23

Do we want to?

Ben: 18:25

I think we should. Oh no, but you got the context because I feel like this was your prerogative for the start of the story, Right? And then my offense, unfortunately at the end.

Liz: 18:36

So this is known as the furniture story. So this is known as the furniture story, and may or may not have known this already, but Ben got his degree in art and so he's quite the designer, and even when we were getting married and designing our, he did our wedding invitations. He did a great job.

Ben: 18:55

And what was the deal that we did for the colors?

Liz: 18:59

Yes. And so Ben came to me and he said we're gonna have two colors. Okay, you know, usually the bride picks the colors and all those kind of things. And he said, um, you pick your color first and then I'll pick mine after yours. And so we got married in october. So I thought, okay, burgundy, you know a fall wedding.

Ben: 19:16

It just sounds ridiculous. Now, yeah, and he chose his color, which was yeah, so you did burgundy and I chose powder, pink Powdered pink because it looked nice up against the burgundy designer here. Some white and some silver maybe, but yeah, like it was.

Liz: 19:32

It was beautiful Mostly burgundy and powder pink. Yeah, and our wedding was beautiful. I mean, it was beautiful All of it but I didn't know that I was going to marry a man that would have a hand in so much. And so, as a young bride and getting ready to be married, I was thinking about what our new apartment would look like and oh, I can finally decorate, and all these kinds of things. And so, after being married for about a month, we went to a furniture store.

Ben: 19:59

Well, what type of furniture store?

Liz: 20:00

Well, it was antique thrifting, which I like to have, antiques and thrift a little bit. And Ben has a very different ideal of design and so he's probably more Ikea, which I like. Ikea too, right, but contemporary versus comfy not as antiquey no, so, uh, so, to this day, being married for um 20 years, um two decades, we still.

Ben: 20:30

We've come to a happy compromise, but which is we don't decorate, we don't decorate. So it's actually true.

Liz: 20:36

That's the compromise and that's the compromise just to keep the peace so it's, it's interesting, so anyway, so we're in this furniture store. I found like a nightstand or something like that and I wanted him to come in there and see it and we get it and bring it back. And he didn't like it and it ended up being like I was hurt and offended and you were upset too, and before long Ben left.

Ben: 21:01

Oh yeah, I left without any furniture, but I got a whole lot of offense.

Liz: 21:06

And without your wife, you left without me I did.

Ben: 21:11

I walked out of that store and I tried to walk home and it was like 20 degrees outside.

Liz: 21:18

Yep Miles, miles away, miles away.

Ben: 21:20

I don't know if you had the key. I guess you had the keys.

Liz: 21:22

I had the keys. I guess you had the keys, I had the keys and you just walked.

Ben: 21:25

I just walked and I was so mad, I was so offended and, as you can tell, my judgment was pretty much impaired at that point.

Liz: 21:34

Oh absolutely.

Ben: 21:35

I'm walking down the highway, or the feeder road of the highway 20 degree weather and just mad as could be.

Liz: 21:47

Yep. So he's walking down the feeder road next to the highway and I'm like I get in the car and turn on the car in the heat and I'm thinking what just happened? Who is this man that I just married? I said I do like a few weeks ago. So I hopped in the car and I knew, I knew the direction of home, so I drove and I saw him and I drove right past him. I didn't even stop. And then, after I drove past him, I kind of had some compassion and I thought, oh gosh, he's walking in this freezing cold because it's like icy and snowy.

Ben: 22:13

Yeah.

Liz: 22:14

So then I turned around, went down the other feeder road, came back up the same road that he was walking, went past him again and stopped at a Taco Bell, which still to this day. When we see that Taco Bell, we're like oh we have some history of that Taco Bell. And so I called you. I called you. I was sitting in the Taco Bell and I just said, hey, how are you? I'm like, are you cold? Yes, yes, he was cold. I said I'm like, are you cold?

Ben: 22:39

Yes.

Liz: 22:39

Yes, he was cold. I said do you want me to drive you home?

Ben: 22:43

Yes.

Liz: 22:43

Yes, and so he got in the car. Well, we switched seats and you were going to drive, You're going to be the driver's seat and I'm like what happened?

Ben: 22:52

He's like I don't know. It was a crazy cycle, is what happened, yeah.

Liz: 22:56

The crazy cycle. It was kind of like who's going to jump off this crazy cycle first?

Ben: 22:59

Yes, and neither one of us did so. We wrote it pretty far. But, man, I'll tell you what my offense clouded, my judgment for sure.

Liz: 23:07

Yeah, that's all I remember, that's okay.

Ben: 23:08

Yeah, it was silly.

Liz: 23:10

We figured it out Very silly. We realized that this was going to be a hot topic.

Ben: 23:14

We needed that book right then, and there Right then, right then.

Liz: 23:19

But you know, that's definitely an experience and yeah, you know and I'm thinking of another one that might be a good one to share when you were working at the marketing firm.

Ben: 23:32

Oh yeah, okay yeah, so maybe a story where I'm not the bad guy, because this one actually turned out pretty cool and yeah, I'm going to make myself the hero in my own story, but it was really cool because it changed some of the outlook and the outcome of the conflict that was happening. But so I'll just dive in. Yeah, so I worked at a marketing firm and this was before I jumped out on my entrepreneurial journey and there was some conflict there with the leadership of the firm. The way that they were interacting with me and talking to me and even cursing at me was a little intense, yes, and it got to the point where it was very hard just to kind of maintain my composure.

Liz: 24:16

Yes, and I jumped on one email thread.

Ben: 24:19

Yeah, you did, yeah, and I was like, hey, pray for me. This is kind of what's going on.

Liz: 24:24

Yeah, you saw it and I was like I don't even speak to my husband this way, you cannot speak to my husband this way. But I was pregnant and awfully bold and tiny, but mighty.

Ben: 24:34

You might've even been offended too.

Liz: 24:36

I was so offended anyway. So tell them what happened, cause this is actually a cool story.

Ben: 24:41

Yeah. So, um, you know, it was really hard. I was, I was struggling with my emotions, trying to do the work and and and not be offended and not, you know, just be completely emotional about everything that was going on, and all of a sudden this thought came to me. It was like, hey, I should just go wash the dishes. Now we we worked in a very small office it was like, you know, 12 people max, and so we all kind of had kitchen duties and we would share whose turn it was to wash dishes and stuff like that. And I remember that wasn't my turn at that time, but some of the people that had just yelled at me and kind of gone off at me had just had lunch and their dishes were in the sink. So I was like I'm just going to serve, and so I walked over, started washing dishes and all of a sudden I kind of felt a different perspective. I felt compassion.

Liz: 25:33

Yeah, yeah.

Ben: 25:34

And I just started seeing the perpetrators as actually not victims but I just I saw like in a different light had more compassion.

Liz: 25:44

Yes.

Ben: 25:44

And it came out later on that one of them in particular was going through a divorce, and so now I understand, you know, some of the intensity that they had and some of just the frustration, and I was just kind of, you know. I was in the wrong place at the wrong time, kind of. So yeah, I just I was able to just kind of pray for them and I felt my perspective shift and I was able to end that relationship good on a good note instead of, just you know, caving too soon and jumping ship.

Liz: 26:16

And getting angry and giving them a piece of your mind.

Ben: 26:18

Yeah, that too.

Liz: 26:19

Yeah, you didn't do that, yeah, and I remember when you came home from work that day and you were like something's changed in my heart and it was interesting, just that servant you know that it broke that offense that you had and it was like how can I bless these people instead of how can I? You know?

Ben: 26:38

wrong attitude that was one time where I chose to be unoffendable. I wish there's more that I could pull back. That's one of the only ones I remember, unfortunately. But, you got a great story though.

Liz: 26:49

Okay.

Ben: 26:58

Do you remember the one where well, do you remember the one where you asked for forgiveness when you might not necessarily need it to? Are you talking about that event?

Liz: 27:02

Yes, Okay, so real quick. I was at an event we were visiting and we had friends there, and a mutual friend of another friend came up to me and said hey yeah, lots of friends said, hey, this individual um, I think could use some prayer.

Ben: 27:17

It was like a church service, yeah, kind of thing.

Liz: 27:19

And an event.

Liz: 27:20

And so I was like, okay, I'll, I'll go and, and went and was talking and trying to figure out, okay, what's going on, what's happening here, and in the conversation, uh, basically came out that this individual just did not like me and oh, okay, and kind of taken back. But I asked, I said is there anything that I've done to offend you, Because I'm raising kids and life is busy and all the things and I miss stuff and trying to be biblical here, Is there anything I've done to offend you that I could ask for forgiveness for? And the response was no, just your personality, just you that I could ask for forgiveness for. And the response was no, just your personality, just you. I don't like you. And I'm thinking, wow, okay, I think I even prayed.

Ben: 28:04

Oh no, you didn't I think I did. Oh no.

Liz: 28:07

And so, which is fine, you know, but I, after that whole thing, I do remember coming out into the parking lot afterwards because I didn't say anything to anybody, you know talking to others and all that kind of stuff, and and when we got in the van to leave I was like that was a. I just had a really crazy experience and the the funny thing is is I wasn't offended like my, I actually had compassion and my heart was hurting right you know, for that individual but?

Ben: 28:31

but I think it's important to note. You don't need to ask for forgiveness for who you are.

Liz: 28:35

No.

Ben: 28:37

But part of this, and part of what even Brandt says in the book, is that you don't have to stay in relationship with people who habitually offend you and abuse you. We're not saying go lay down and be a doormat for anybody, just to step on, just to be stepped on. You can stand up for yourself. You can stand up for yourself. You can stand up for even situations that are wrong.

Liz: 28:57

Right.

Ben: 28:58

But just not with offense.

Liz: 29:00

Well and two, there's the saying, that's find your tribe.

Ben: 29:04

Yeah.

Liz: 29:06

And go where you're celebrated, not criticized, and I mean there's a time for constructive criticism and I'm all about that. And if there's blind spots, like I'm always telling you or asking you like, hey, help me see my blind spots, because our Holy Spirit shine a light on me you know, help me because I can only see so far.

Liz: 29:28

Right, and we only know what we know. We only know what we know. But what's cool is, even though that situation happened, um, I was in the process of like discovering how God has made me, and not apologizing for who I am, which you know is that positively, positivity bubbly.

Ben: 29:44

You know outgoing all the things I fell in love with Right.

Liz: 29:48

Right, all those things that you fell in love with. Right, and you know you guys may have heard us speak about this on another episode, but I love strength finders and one of my top five strengths is positivity.

Ben: 29:58

Yeah.

Liz: 29:59

And for people who don't have that strength, sometimes it's like oh, you're just like Pollyanna and you know-.

Ben: 30:07

Who's said that before?

Liz: 30:08

Well, that's what they say. They say you can be like Pollyanna Really, but yeah, yeah it is. And so the thing is, is that it's like not apologizing, you know, for just how God has made me with my strengths and my gifts and my calling, and so, yeah, I didn't apologize for being me.

Ben: 30:29

Yeah, and I wasn't offended.

Liz: 30:31

I really wasn't. I think I had more pity than anything else, but that is a very awkward situation.

Ben: 30:36

Yeah, period, just slightly, just slightly.

Liz: 30:38

Very period Like so weird Period.

Ben: 30:42

Maybe even an offensive situation. Yeah, I guess you could say that too. We've had at least a couple of stories where we actually weren't offended but actually tried practicing some of what we read in this book. But some takeaways. Let's go back to the scriptures real quick. So Ephesians 4, 31 through 32, get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other just as in Christ God forgave you. So I mean, this is pretty clear Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger.

Liz: 31:23

I don't feel like you're allowed to hold on to it. No, you're not, at least not from that scripture. No, you're not supposed to hang on to it. I like what it says in James 1, 19 through 20,. Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires.

Ben: 31:43

This is a very strong argument, that last part again.

Liz: 31:45

Well, I mean, does not produce the righteousness that God desires.

Ben: 31:49

So, almost like our human righteous anger isn't really righteous.

Liz: 31:55

No, not at all. Filthy rags, guys. Filthy rags Yikes, yikes.

Ben: 32:00

And what about this last one in Psalms 37, 8? Refrain from anger and turn from wrath. Do not fret, it leads only to evil. I mean, I don't know if you can be any more clear than that. Refrain from anger. It leads to evil. I mean, I don't know if you can be any more clear than that. Refrain from anger, it leads to evil.

Liz: 32:17

Yeah, that's so intense. When you're thinking about that Like it will lead to evil, I honestly like right now I just want to get before the Lord and say search my heart, give me clean hands and a pure heart.

Ben: 32:27

Show me where it is, and just as parents too, I mean.

Liz: 32:30

Yeah show me where it is, and you know, just as parents too. I mean, I feel like that is a cross that we bear.

Ben: 32:38

Because I didn't really realize.

Liz: 32:39

Yeah, living with teenagers I didn't realize, like when they were little and things like that and I've heard many mothers say this I didn't realize. I had anger in my heart, you know, until I had kids, you know, because there's just things that happen or offense, yeah, you know. You know, because there's just things that happen, or a fence, you know.

Ben: 32:56

So it's a daily process of him molding and making us, yeah, yeah, shine your light on me, lord, please do.

Liz: 32:59

Please shock me now, right.

Ben: 33:01

Yeah, help me, jesus, help us, help us.

Liz: 33:04

Yeah, well, that's good.

Ben: 33:05

I feel like that was a good yeah, it was a good conclusion. And you know it's messy and obviously we're looking for the Lord in the middle of our mess and one of those ways is just him helping us to get rid of our anger. Yeah, yeah.

Liz: 33:19

You know, and so we just want to say thank you so much for being a part of our one blessed mess today. Don't forget to subscribe or share and send this on to a friend or heart, or like or give the thumbs up. However, you're listening to this because it really helps us, and if there's somebody that you think could use the encouragement today, buy them the book that's right, but we will.

Liz: 33:41

In the show notes we will have the link to Brant's book Unaffendable. It's pretty great and until next time just remember to embrace your mess, because if our mess can be blessed, so can yours. So can yours.