Liz: 0:12

All right, welcome to our One Blessed Mess. This is Ben and Liz, and we are so excited to be here today with you. We're here about talking about our story with raising six kids in eight years and managing our entrepreneurial home with two businesses while homeschooling, and also currently navigating life with four teenagers four soon to be five plus eight chickens and two dogs, just to keep life interesting. Also, what is our acronym for our one blessed mess?

Ben: 0:46

O1BM.

Liz: 0:47

O1BM.

Ben: 0:48

And Liz likes to say R1 BM.

Liz: 0:50

R1 BM, so it kind of.

Ben: 0:53

That's a joke.

Liz: 0:54

Yeah, we talked about it earlier.

Ben: 0:56

It's in earlier episodes. It's some potty humor and unfortunately I never grew out of potty humor.

Liz: 1:02

So still funny to this day. It's yes, sometimes I'm raising seven kids, not six.

Ben: 1:07

Yeah, this is true, and you had to do some first time obedience with me even.

Liz: 1:12

Yes, yes, yes, which is what we're talking about today. It is what we're talking about today.

Ben: 1:15

This is the second part of our first time obedience cover or topic, I guess you would say, and we're going to dive right back in, but you were telling me right before this that you had a funny story Okay.

Liz: 1:29

So this story is really hilarious. I just had this memory and thought I would share it with you guys, because everybody needs a good laugh every now and then, especially on a heavy topic like what we're talking about right now. So Christmas I got these decals and had the nativity set up, so like decals that you put on a window, right.

Ben: 1:48

They're like the sticky ones. Yeah, like on sliding glass.

Liz: 1:50

Yeah, like on our sliding glass door, and I that's something that I do in my house. Depending on what holiday we're celebrating, I always put these little decals up there and and it gives the kids something to do while we're decorating. It's kind of fun, so they come off and go back on.

Ben: 2:02

Well, anyway, I have the nat's visiting us and they didn't just put the nativity up, they actually, like, started writing on these little sticky with a sharpie, with a sharpie, yeah, with a sharpie.

Liz: 2:15

Which? And putting things you know, fun things, right like mary and joseph, mary and joseph, little like noel and uh-huh yeah.

Ben: 2:22

But but there was something on the donkey.

Liz: 2:25

what was on the donkey list? I'm looking at the donkey and I'm like, oh my gosh, I saw it too. Does that say what I think it says? It looks like it spells out a dollar, sign dollar sign, but not dollar signs.

Ben: 2:45

Let the reader understand.

Liz: 2:46

Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, that is hilarious. So what do I do?

Ben: 2:50

Naturally, I grab my phone and take a video of it.

Liz: 2:52

It was done in, like you know someone's handwriting that was really rough and very juvenile, and so you're like how did they connect those things?

Ben: 3:00

I?

Liz: 3:00

didn't know if it was one of my kids or the cousins or something. So it turns out it was my niece and I asked her. So innocent, so innocent, hey. So they said you wrote on this. Tell me what did you write there? She's like I wrote.

Ben: 3:14

UGG? That does not look like UGG. That does not look like UGG.

Liz: 3:16

And you guys, this is right before. We had the church over.

Ben: 3:20

Like the church was on their way, the church was on their way.

Liz: 3:22

We're doing home church, yeah, they were all coming over that day, like right before they arrived, I thought, oh, this is funny, this is very funny. So we just thought we'd tell you that funny story because it just happened, so all right, good times. So the topic we're jumping into today.

Ben: 3:37

Yeah, so we're going to pick back up where we left off on the first time obedience. We just finished talking about the example with our daughter in the diaper and Pros and cons.

Ben: 3:51

Yeah, pros and cons, and we'll just do a real quick recap on the concept, just so you know if you are starting out on this episode, you can go back and and and watch the first one, but you won't have to just completely come in blind. So, first time obedience is this concept of uh training kids, especially young kids, uh, and even specifically young kids, how to obey the first time a directive is given and for reasons that are quite obvious safety, consistency, learning and expecting to understand about authority and even just establishing safety and peace for the parent and for the child.

Ben: 4:25

So that's kind of the pros. We talked about some of the cons also, where, if you just stop there right on this concept of first-time obedience and that is exclusively the way that you relate to your child, but it helps to lay this foundation because it makes other things so much easier, and so that was one of the other things we were talking about is like the dividends that this kind of pays later on in life, especially with teenagers.

Ben: 5:03

You know, if you have kids that are used to obeying like that opens up so many more possibilities for you to be able to spend your energy and other things besides getting them to obey.

Liz: 5:15

Right.

Ben: 5:15

So we just talked about, you know, our daughter's diaper and how we got real intense in the training and you know she finally dropped it. Yeah, yeah. And one time and then basically that set her default with how she relates to both liz and I and she's one of our most obedient kids and we really have obedient kids, I mean well, what about?

Liz: 5:39

what about when a certain other daughter was um, so yeah, so this was before we had, we had established this training. This is probably why we found this training.

Ben: 5:53

We might have come to our wits end through this experience, and so we were looking at. You know what we could do differently?

Liz: 5:59

Because we were a growing family and had another baby on the way.

Ben: 6:02

Yeah, yeah and so when our oldest daughter hit about three.

Liz: 6:10

Three, three and a half.

Ben: 6:12

It was extremely challenging. She is strong-willed. We have a couple.

Liz: 6:16

Well, they're all strong-willed. We have a couple strong. Yeah, they're all strong.

Ben: 6:19

Some are stronger than others, but our oldest daughter had such a strong willpower that we just didn't know what to do. We were besides ourselves. We tried various forms of disciplining and different tactics and, you know, nothing seemed to work. And we were like, literally at our end. She would growl, she was mad. We thought she was like manifesting. Well, no, kidding, yeah, we thought she was.

Liz: 6:43

I actually went to a lady in our church that I really respect and met with her and I just said I'm wondering if my daughter needs deliverance or something's going on Like I didn't even know she's like nope, she said she's three and she has a lot of estrogen, and that helped me dive into a direction to figure out what's physically going on in her body.

Liz: 7:09

And that is true when they're three and four years old, especially in girls. That flood of hormones is very real and it's there for about five. Then it starts to really start mellowing out and then it starts coming back and rising in eight and nine. But that's because they're they're preteens and tweens and we know, we know.

Liz: 7:27

So, anyway, with her um, introducing this was a little bit different. It wasn't just a one and a done. Part of that was because it was she was a little older. Now I always say, um, if, if, work on getting your kids you know, work with your kids becoming obedient. When you say what you say, you mean um, and they know it and they follow through. And being consistent, because if you don't nip it in the bud like now, so to speak I don't know how else to say it but if you don't get there now, then the next year is going to be harder, then the next year is going to be harder 10 years from now will be a nightmare.

Liz: 7:57

Yeah, it will, Because you, you know, you want to work with them when they're younger. So she was like three, four years old and it was a little it was intense.

Ben: 8:08

We finally figured out something that worked, where we basically, you know, put her in her room and tell her to come out when she had a happy heart and for some reason that clicked.

Liz: 8:18

It took a little while. So, yeah, we were consistent. So, as soon as she would, she would start to get upset for whatever. It didn't even matter. It could be that she was eating with the wrong color spoon, you know, um, you know. Or she didn't even matter, it could be that she was eating with the wrong color spoon, you know, you know, or she didn't get an extra French fry, like I mean, it was silly little things like that, and her emotions would just start going and she hadn't learned.

Liz: 8:38

It was a spiral, yeah. And so as soon as we saw that, we would say hey, you, you know, get a happy heart. You need to have a happy heart. We explained what a happy heart is. If you can't have a happy heart, you need to have a happy heart. We explain what a happy heart is. If you can't have a happy heart, then we need you to go to your room and you're going to stay in your room until you have a happy heart. So we were kind of removing her from the situation and then we did things creative, like if she had a bad attitude, your attitude is not good, you're going to go throw your bad.

Ben: 9:04

You know, we realize why our attitude is bad.

Liz: 9:06

We're going to let her go to the trash and throw her bad attitude in there or flush it down the toilet because we did that as well and you know she was better, but getting the whole family to get on board with the first time obedience thing, and it's not necessarily a one and done like.

Ben: 9:36

even with our other daughter, we still had to remind her. This is what we're doing, guys. We're kind of slacking in this Because we're human, yeah, we're human. And people fail, we fail.

Liz: 9:46

Our kids fail.

Ben: 9:50

We go on trips, or there'd be a slew of sickness that would come through the house, or I'd have a baby or I'm newly pregnant. We have to know what was different about what the norm was and why things weren't working. And then, when it was, time it's like.

Ben: 9:58

it's kind of like, you know, when people get on diets and they get off the diet train, then they get back on the diet train, so something like that you know it's just that, coming back to it, coming back to it, yeah, so you can't yeah, you can't be too dogmatic about it, but we knew that, overall, this is where we want our family to go is? We wanted to make sure that they responded to us and they, um, uh, would obey, you know, the first time that we we asked them to do something. So let's talk about what what it doesn't look like, maybe. Oh, what does? It Do you remember our friend Mr Ezra.

Liz: 10:29

Oh yes.

Ben: 10:30

He was a cute kid.

Liz: 10:31

So cute, I fell in love with him.

Ben: 10:33

We met this kid in Ireland and let me tell you he had this crazy bubbly personality. Yeah, he loved being able to be in the limelight and just go right up and talk to strangers. And so we met this kid at this park and it was in Southern Ireland and it was like a resort.

Liz: 10:51

We were celebrating our 20th anniversary. Yeah, 20th anniversary.

Ben: 10:54

Celebrating and this kid comes up to us and we strike up a relationship and you know specifically he was talking to you.

Liz: 11:02

Well, I just, I just love little kids, you know, and I love especially his age. He was four, and so I just love the way they think and how expressive they are. And you know, if you want to have a great conversation, sit down with some four-year-olds and you're going to laugh because the way they view the world is hilarious and it's so, so inspiring, you know.

Ben: 11:25

So that was the positive of meeting Mr Ezra.

Liz: 11:28

But what was?

Ben: 11:29

what was the negative thing that we saw shortly after that?

Liz: 11:32

So we were at dinner and this is how we met him.

Liz: 11:35

Uh, we were at dinner and their table, the reservation, was right behind us, and so, um, you know, he strikes up a conversation with me actually a, little cutie, cutie pie and uh, we start talking and um, and then I can't remember exactly what happened, but his mother made a comment where and we're just meeting these people were over in Europe, right, and they're American. So you know, we're like, oh happy to meet some more Americans and interested in what they're doing there, plus with their kids. I thought that was brilliant. But there were a lot of people from all over the world, a lot of people celebrating 50 and 60 years of marriage, which was really cool. But she makes the comment to me that they have another daughter and she's so cute. She's, I think, a little over one, and she said, oh, she's the, because she was having a meltdown, she was tired, she wanted to go to bed, she wanted to use the spoon, she didn't want her mom to feed her. You know all those little things that happen as they're gaining their independence.

Ben: 12:28

We were trying to console her, yeah, I was like oh, she's so cute, yeah, and I was like you're doing such a great job as a mom and she goes well.

Liz: 12:34

She's the easy one, he's the hard one and I thought, gosh, this kid's been pretty awesome with me.

Ben: 12:39

We're like wow he's hard. I'm like.

Liz: 12:45

Well, no, that night.

Ben: 12:46

Oh, was it that night?

Liz: 12:48

He started because he didn't want to leave. That's right.

Ben: 12:50

There was two episodes, so two episodes with Mr Ezra. The first time he didn't want to leave, that's right. I just remembered that. And he just started pitching a fit, and I don't mean like, like a little fit it was like screaming, throwing things, he wouldn't like go to the chair. His dad literally is like trying to yank him off the chair.

Liz: 13:09

It was wild, it was crazy.

Ben: 13:10

It was like you were dealing with a wild animal.

Liz: 13:13

Yeah, it was wild, and we were just.

Ben: 13:14

we were mostly shocked by how intense they let him get and then, like that, it was almost normal.

Liz: 13:23

Well, and, and the thing is, I want to say, like we have, like our understanding and our family how we do things. We weren't the only ones. There were people from all over the world Like turning looking, I mean making comments. I mean it was pretty intense. Okay, so that's the first thing Next morning we go and we have breakfast because we're at a resort.

Ben: 13:44

We're at a resort. At the resort, we go in for the continental breakfast. That's there and it's good. Oh no, this is like. The english don't even call that a continental breakfast. What are you doing? It was it?

Liz: 13:52

was a. It was an irish breakfast. It was the lay of the land like it was great.

Ben: 13:59

Oh my gosh, take me back. Can we go back? I don't know. I don't know if we can afford it. Please take me it was like a once in 20 years kind of trip. But, anyways, we show up at the restaurant and there we hear Ezra as we're walking in.

Liz: 14:12

Yeah, and before that started he sees me, okay. So he sees me and you know we've made a little connection. I'm like hi, how'd you sleep? You know, trying to keep things because the night before was pretty intense, like it was intense like manager coming, servers coming, and so he's like I did good and we have been already seated and I'm just picking up a few more things at this delicious breakfast bar and I leave him.

Liz: 14:38

Well, he starts talking to his mom and then we start hearing him screaming and he's like in an adjacent room and we're in the most beautiful location with all these windows overlooking the cliffs, with, you know, I mean other people who were traveling and we had, by this time, had met other couples and you know, 60 years. Somebody else was there for 30 years, 50 years, there was somebody else celebrating a graduation, there was a lot that was going on and I mean the whole area that we were sitting in, this big breakfast area, started getting tense and he's screaming.

Ben: 15:13

And you guys, it wasn't 10 minutes, it wasn't 20 minutes, it wasn't 30 minutes, it had to have been at least 40 minutes and it could have even been longer, but it was so intense and it was so bad that the wait staff was actually coming up asking if they could do anything and that's when you know like it's gotten out of control was like it was affecting the entire flow of the restaurant, and what was sad about it is like here's this couple who undoubtedly spent, you know, lots of money to come over and have this enjoyable time and to enjoy it with the kids, and it was ruining it not only for them, but pretty much everybody in the restaurant.

Ben: 15:48

Yeah, yeah, you know all, because this child wouldn't obey.

Liz: 15:54

And what he wanted to do. I found out later because we ran into them again. And you know and I still pray for this kid because I know he has a great little call on his life Like God has a big plan for him. He's so adorable. But he was upset because he wanted to come have breakfast with you and I. That's why he was screaming and the mom told me that and she said I told him he couldn't because you guys had a two-seater, which was true. I think I would have just invited him to come to the table.

Ben: 16:22

I mean, yeah, honestly, I, you guys had a two-seater, which was true. I think I would have just invited him to come to the table. I mean yeah, honestly, I probably should have just said Worked on first time obedience, later Just given into the kid.

Liz: 16:32

Well, and in the conversation with her you know, she was telling me that this is a pattern. This is something that he does all the time.

Ben: 16:39

Yeah, and, but why? Why do you think that happens?

Liz: 16:42

Well, I try to drop little hints.

Ben: 16:45

We don't know why. I mean, we do know why.

Liz: 16:47

Yeah, we know why we know why?

Ben: 16:48

It's because it's tolerated.

Liz: 16:50

Yeah, it's tolerated, it was tolerated.

Ben: 16:51

It was probably tolerated at home.

Liz: 16:53

Yeah, it is.

Ben: 16:53

And then this is what you get when you're out and about and when you're with strangers.

Liz: 17:09

Right, and then there was another third episode that happened.

Liz: 17:11

They all went to sing karaoke and they told him to, he got up there, but then they told him he had to get off stage and he didn't want to and it ended up being a fiasco. When she told me about that Cause, we saw him again later that night after this thing, and so this is like a pattern and so in like, if you know me, I'm trying to like gently bring up maybe a suggestion, because we have so many kids, you know, with all different personality types, extremely strong-willed, still strong-willed, you know all these kinds of things, and I'm like there is a better way, like there is a better way, and I did share a little bit with her. I think it kind of set her on a path to begin to think and maybe go down this, because this kid there was like no boundaries, it was like whatever he felt.

Ben: 17:57

His will was at odds with his parents and he was winning. That was the honest truth was that they were letting him dictate how the family was run, and that's kind of. That's kind of what we're trying to say is what we want to avoid Like with this, with this tactic you know, this first time obedience tactic it's really about making sure that there's a correct authority structure and you don't have to abuse it.

Liz: 18:20

No, please do not.

Ben: 18:22

And that's where it gets a bad rap right. Is because you've got these parents that think only in terms of first time obedience and they don't ever move beyond that. But we have to say like this has saved us so much headache, so much drama so much stress and so much time. Like can you imagine being able to tell your kids hey, we got to get ready to go. Everything needs to be cleaned up, picked up, and when you're going to walk out the door in 10 minutes and them actually doing it?

Liz: 18:51

Ours do that, ours do that, ours really do that.

Ben: 18:53

That's the normal behavior yeah.

Liz: 18:54

And they get their coats on, they get their shoes on, they get their backpacks.

Ben: 18:58

And they're not robots, they're super creative individuals that if you start going and cutting up with them, they will cut up and they will get into the most fun trouble you've ever had in your life. And I love that. I love that about my kids they love to cut up and they love to have a good time. But when we get serious and when we know and we say like, hey, this is what we're doing, guys they do it yeah. It started. It's such a blessing.

Liz: 19:20

Yeah, we've trained on it and you should tell the elephant story.

Ben: 19:24

Yeah, there's, there's a good story about the elephant.

Ben: 19:26

I love telling the story because I think it encapsulates kind of this concept, but in the animal kingdom maybe a little bit. And it's a story about this preserve in South Africa, the Kruger National Park, and you can look this up online. I'm sure you can Google it and find the more details, because I'm just going to give you just the basics. But there was a preserve and things were going so well. They were having an abundance of elephant population, so they're having too many elephants.

Ben: 19:56

They needed to relocate them, and the only way they could relocate them effectively was to use these helicopters, and so the helicopters had a harness. They would take elephants up one by one and move them to this other preserve, and they were doing a great job. But they couldn't get the older male bulls because they weighed so much, and so the harness and the helicopters weren't able to effectively lift them, so they had to leave them behind. So all these elephants got moved over to the other preserve and everything was great, this particular one. At the new one, though, they were noticing something kind of crazy. They were noticing that a bunch of the rhinos were being slaughtered and it wasn't poachers, because the tusks were still left on the animal. They were just being trampled and killed and gored.

Liz: 20:44

Yeah.

Ben: 20:48

And it was almost like someone was doing it for fun. There seemed to be no rhyme or reason why these rhinos were being killed. And then the staff there at this new preserve they noticed that there were other animals being killed, and so they were trying to figure out what is going on. Well, they set up some wildlife cameras and stuff and they were able to witness young bulls going and doing this, going and killing, and they were trying to figure out what can we do to stop this. So someone had a great idea, which was to go back and reintroduce some of the older bulls to the new preserve.

Liz: 21:22

Yep.

Ben: 21:22

Guess what happened. As soon as they put those older bulls, the ones that had the ability to enforce their will on the younger bulls, it all cleared up and there was a clear authority structure and those young bull elephants changed their behavior.

Liz: 21:42

They changed their ways.

Ben: 21:44

Because there was an authority structure and there was, honestly, a will that was greater than theirs that was being enforced, and I feel like that's a that's a great kind of like animal kingdom snapshot, as into what we're talking about here is we, we. Sometimes we just need another will exerted on ours in order for us to shape up.

Ben: 22:03

That happens with us as adults in the form of, like God, just kind of saying, no, you can't really do that, you need to do this. And sometimes we run headlong the other direction, like Jonah. But God ends up having his way, you know, and through circumstances, and finally through our obedience and our submission, you know, like he, he's able to put us back together again. But we don't often we don't want to like have to make that our our story so often. Sometimes it's nice just to obey the first time.

Liz: 22:35

Right, right.

Ben: 22:37

And especially when it comes to simple things like running a family and with our six kids. We just knew that, like we would save so much headache if we could implement this strategy of first time obedience. We would pay dividends. And guess what it has paid dividends.

Liz: 22:53

I'm so thankful.

Ben: 22:54

We even had. I know I'm kind of rambling on here, but we even had one of our kids recently, our youngest.

Liz: 22:59

Our youngest out of all of them, come up and tell us.

Ben: 23:03

Mom and dad, I want to say thank you for teaching us about first-time obedience. We were, we were with another family and, um, the kids were acting up and there wasn't down the hatches, down the hatches was about to come out and do her first-time obedience training, um, but no, like there was another family we were with and you know things weren't going well and lots of disobedience. Like lots of disobedience you know the dad had would have to repeat several times and count and all this stuff, and it was like I'm still disobeying.

Ben: 23:35

It was just, it was tiring Just listening to him.

Liz: 23:38

Yeah.

Ben: 23:39

And then they finally left and and mom, dad, I want to say thanks for teaching us first time obedience, because that was bad.

Liz: 23:55

Yeah.

Ben: 23:55

And he, just he realized he was recognizing what it looks like when you're not obedient to your parents. And he knew at what was he? I don't know, nine maybe.

Liz: 24:05

Eight, nine, eight or nine he knew instinctively.

Ben: 24:08

that's not cool man, like it's just. It's disrespectful to your parents yeah, you don't want to be that way.

Liz: 24:19

Yeah, and and the. You know we've seen it in other families, as I'm sure you have, and maybe this may be your family, I don't know. I mean, ours was certainly there at one point, um, but you know, just really stressed out, especially when it's times of transition, like times to leave and get in the car, or sit down and have a meal or do bath time or have to get off screens.

Liz: 24:37

It's like you have to keep saying it and keep saying it, and I just watched families and I just want to say there's a better way. I think that's why we're talking about this is because we see it and-.

Ben: 24:48

We want to share that. We want to share it. It can be good.

Liz: 24:51

It can be good. It's good and also, too, you know, we've talked to um single people, individuals, male and female, and they have said that you know what they see they're like. I don't ever want to have kids, and I'm. It hurts my heart because children are a reward.

Ben: 25:08

That's what the Bible says. The.

Liz: 25:09

Bible says that the children are your reward and the Lord has rewarded us with six.

Ben: 25:13

Blessed is the man whose quiver is full.

Liz: 25:15

Yes, blessed is the man. And you know, children are a reward. I love my kids, I enjoy my kids, we enjoy our kids, we enjoy spending time with our kids Like it's so fun. And for someone to be jaded because of what they see out there, it's like no, there's a better way. And see out there, it's like no, there's a better way. And we often have invited these single people into our home to come and share a meal with us, especially if I hear that that's rattling in their head through the years. Come, be with us, because not that we're perfect, trust me, we're not.

Ben: 25:46

No, we're not, we're a mess. Yeah, we're a mess. That's why it's called our one blessed mess.

Liz: 25:50

But we often have them come and share a meal with us or have a game night with us because we want them to see like there is a better way you know.

Ben: 25:58

And I just want to say something like it is kind of counterculture to talk about obedience in such a forthright way, because you know authority has been done wrong. We've all seen the examples where authority has been misapplied. It's been hypocritical. Seen the examples where authority has been misapplied. It's been hypocritical and even especially in church culture. You know, like it's just, it's done bad. We're broken people and it doesn't often look good when people try to have a clear authority structure.

Liz: 26:25

However, however, however, however, you don't want rebellion.

Ben: 26:30

No, you don't want the opposite, guys. Just because authority hasn't been done well doesn't mean that the opposite is any better. Right, in fact, it's worse.

Ben: 26:40

And so we have to turn to the scriptures to see what the Lord says about raising kids and about obedience, and also just about what he expects for for parents too Like you know, and so one of the things that really got me um thinking about this, this topic even more, was a book called um the men we need by Brant Hanson, Great book incredible book my favorite author, but incredible book and it talks about the role of masculinity in society and specifically, how it was started in the Garden of Eden and just what we're expected to do as men, and one of the primary things we're expected to do from the Lord is to be a protector and to be a provider, and so one of the ways that you protect your family and you protect your wife as a father, as a parent, is to teach your kids obedience.

Ben: 27:39

It's such a practical way to be a protector Super simple right. If they obey, then they're more safe. As long as you are doing the right thing right, then they're going to obey the right thing. So it does have to. You know it is predicated on you doing the right thing and being a good person. But if you set that example and you expect them to obey, then there's like this trickle down blessing effect that happens and your wife is super grateful that you step in.

Liz: 28:08

That's what I was going to say yeah, you protect me from going crazy, so real quick.

Ben: 28:14

I think we have time for one more quick story.

Liz: 28:16

Oh no. What story is this one?

Ben: 28:17

I remember, I believe it was coming home one day, oh gosh. And everybody just needed a little ship up, shape up kind of thing. It didn't look like first. Some obedience was going well. I came home and I looked at you and I was like I know what to do.

Liz: 28:35

I know what to do.

Ben: 28:36

You go to the bedroom. I'm going to go talk to the kids and we worked it out with the kids and I came back in and I said you're welcome. And I went back down, or maybe it was starting work, I don't remember. Anyhow, I just came up and did those couple things and then later on you came back to me and you're like thank you so much, you're so attractive right now.

Liz: 28:57

It's true. It's true. Hey man, this is a, this is a tip, this is a tip for you. But no, there's actually a couple of stories around that, you know I'm I'm thinking of even when, you know, covid hit and we were thrown into COVID schooling.

Ben: 29:12

Oh yeah.

Liz: 29:13

That's not homeschooling. It was crisis schooling.

Ben: 29:15

Crisis schooling?

Liz: 29:16

Yeah, because our kids were in school at that time we weren't homeschooling yet and everything had to come home and these poor, precious teachers were trying to duplicate what was happening in the classrooms at home and that was just nearly impossible. And so the kids were just like. You know, it was a lot. And I remember one morning, like I was already so stressed and you gathered the troops and you gave them the what for, and I mean, it was, you know, it's dad. But uh, it changed everything and I I thought I haven't even gotten my coffee yet- Like it just awesome, so awesome.

Ben: 30:07

It's going to be a good, good day. A good day and his mercy and his grace, and I love that too. But we would be foolish to think that he doesn't also get angry and that he's also not a judge. And you know, what's good about those things Is he gets angry at the things that are bad. He doesn't get angry at the things that are good and he loves us even when we do those bad things. It's true.

Ben: 30:33

But he still wants justice and that's a good thing, like we want to be saved from bad things and we want God's justice to come on the earth. And so part of like doing this first time obedience is like connecting our kids and showing them this concept that there is an authority and it's a good authority. And as long as you are connected to the heart of the Lord and you are loving your kids in a righteous way, then it's okay to make sure that they want to obey and it's okay to like, show and live that example even as you obey the Lord.

Liz: 31:09

Right and it's good.

Ben: 31:10

You know it's not popular because we like to just kind of skip past the judgment of God. But it's there for a reason. It's there for our own good, it's there to keep us out of trouble. And it's there as a reminder, once we are in trouble, that, like hey, god's anger lasts for a little while, but his mercy endures forever.

Ben: 31:25

Forever, and so, yeah, we just want to connect with God's whole heart. We don't want to make sure that we are doing it in the right way, and we also want to make sure that we're not stressed out, that's the biggest thing we don't want to be stressed out Peace, peace.

Liz: 31:44

I love everything that you just said. That's really good and I think that's a good note to wrap all of this up on. We'll have a link in the notes for Brant Hansen's book.

Ben: 31:51

Yeah.

Liz: 31:51

It is a really good book. He's our favorite author. We hope to meet him one day. Ben's kind of a fan fan man over here.

Ben: 31:57

Oh, fan boy, he's a fan man Bromance.

Liz: 32:00

Yeah, we'd love to meet him, but we want to say thank you for being a part of our One Blessed Mess today. Don't forget to like, subscribe, share heart, give the thumbs up whatever platform you're listening this to on or watching and then also to feel free to share with your friends and your family. That needs some encouragement. We went kind of heavy and kind of deep today on a couple of things. We hope that it blesses you we know that it has blessed our lives and also follow us on Instagram. Our handle is at our one numeric one blessed mess. Our course, our acronym is our one BM. Okay, we don't have that handle, but anyway, but until next time, we just want to say embrace your beautiful mess, because if our mess is blessed, and so can yours.

Liz: 32:50

So can yours.